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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. Mieke Ooooooooyang  🎃‏Verified account @MiekeEoyang 1 May 2017
      Replying to @MiekeEoyang @charlie_savage

      Now, NSA allows analysts to search the Upstream data the same way they'd search PRISM for USP information, expanding haystack. 10/

      2 replies 2 retweets 0 likes
    2. Mieke Ooooooooyang  🎃‏Verified account @MiekeEoyang 1 May 2017
      Replying to @MiekeEoyang @charlie_savage

      But this still doesn't resolve issue that NSA/FBI can now search combined Upstream & PRISM databases w/o a warrant for USP information. 11/

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 1 May 2017
      Replying to @MiekeEoyang @charlie_savage

      Do FBI is still not supposed to be searching upstream at all. That may (likely to) change w/new changes.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Mieke Ooooooooyang  🎃‏Verified account @MiekeEoyang 1 May 2017
      Replying to @emptywheel @charlie_savage

      That's what I thought Charlie was reporting in the updated article.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 1 May 2017
      Replying to @MiekeEoyang @charlie_savage

      Last I checked it it just referred to NSA searches on upstream. Tho possible violation is getting upstream metadata and using it for PRISM.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Mieke Ooooooooyang  🎃‏Verified account @MiekeEoyang 1 May 2017
      Replying to @emptywheel @charlie_savage

      So wait, @charlie_savage does the changing of the Upstream search audience broaden it to FBI, or just NSA looking for USP identifiers?

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 1 May 2017
      Replying to @MiekeEoyang @charlie_savage

      Also note: To some degree it doesn't matter, as all upstream about is at least ostensibly intl comms, so available under 12333.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Mieke Ooooooooyang  🎃‏Verified account @MiekeEoyang 1 May 2017
      Replying to @emptywheel @charlie_savage

      Except a 12333 database searched by NSA, has a different constitutional set than a combined Upstream/PRISM one searched by FBI.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 1 May 2017
      Replying to @MiekeEoyang @charlie_savage

      Under the new sharing rules FBI can search that 12333 database now. The biggest diff is AG approval standard actually higher than FISA.

      1 reply 3 retweets 0 likes
    10. Charlie Savage‏Verified account @charlie_savage 1 May 2017
      Replying to @emptywheel @MiekeEoyang

      Not necessarily same/full database. I have been led to believe that agencies that get 12333 sharing have to make case for specific streams

      2 replies 2 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 1 May 2017
      Replying to @charlie_savage @MiekeEoyang

      Which is not dissimilar from what it does now, no? Except that 702 raw sharing would be limited to existing certs and 12333 would not be.

      11:57 AM - 1 May 2017
      • 1 Retweet
      • monique d'hooghe
      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Charlie Savage‏Verified account @charlie_savage 1 May 2017
          Replying to @emptywheel @MiekeEoyang

          Possible it's more limited than that. Supposedly for ex FBI doesn't get all 702 prism raw, only selectors relevant to investigations ...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Charlie Savage‏Verified account @charlie_savage 1 May 2017
          Replying to @charlie_savage @emptywheel @MiekeEoyang

          ... i.e. CT stuff for sure, but maybe not selectors relevant to trade talks or military maneuvers in South China Sea etc...

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 1 May 2017
          Replying to @charlie_savage @MiekeEoyang

          Right: FBI would be CT, CP, CI, and CYBERZ under known 702 certs. But under 12333 you'd add Transnational Crime, and MOAR CYBERZ.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 1 May 2017
          Replying to @emptywheel @charlie_savage @MiekeEoyang

          And I suspect EO 12333 sharing rules have explicit focus on leak investigations (tho they'd be under CI on 702 as well).

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation

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