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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. Charlie Savage‏Verified account @charlie_savage 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @normative @emptywheel and

      I would like confirmation that "directive" (not, say, "order") was the correct word.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @charlie_savage

      Directive may also mean FISC order that is similar to 702 one, no? @normative @LizaGoitein @JameelJaffer

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Charlie Savage‏Verified account @charlie_savage 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @emptywheel @normative and

      It may mean nothing if writer/source didn't understand it's a legal term of art.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Jameel Jaffer‏Verified account @JameelJaffer 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @charlie_savage @emptywheel and

      Could it be anything other than an 1881a(h) directive?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Elizabeth Goitein‏ @LizaGoitein 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @JameelJaffer @charlie_savage and

      That's the question. I can't think what else it could be.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Charlie Savage‏Verified account @charlie_savage 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @LizaGoitein @JameelJaffer and

      It could be a traditional FISA order with the specific selector approved by a judge.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Jameel Jaffer‏Verified account @JameelJaffer 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @charlie_savage @LizaGoitein and

      Would have to rely on a very broad definition of "facility."

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Elizabeth Goitein‏ @LizaGoitein 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @JameelJaffer @charlie_savage and

      If gov't is doing "about" collection using regular FISA orders, THAT's a story.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @LizaGoitein

      Are you meaning "about" to refer to only content collection, pre recent FISCR opinion? @JameelJaffer @charlie_savage @normative

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Elizabeth Goitein‏ @LizaGoitein 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @emptywheel @JameelJaffer and

      I mean scanning content for the selector.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 4 Oct 2016
      Replying to @LizaGoitein

      Content of what? Packet or body of email? @JameelJaffer @charlie_savage @normative

      12:37 PM - 4 Oct 2016
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Elizabeth Goitein‏ @LizaGoitein 4 Oct 2016
          Replying to @emptywheel @JameelJaffer and

          Body, a la Upstream, which is what the article seems to be saying Yahoo did.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 4 Oct 2016
          Replying to @LizaGoitein

          Why do you believe upstream can't be for a selector itself? Like "AAwlaki@Awlaki.net"? @JameelJaffer @charlie_savage @normative

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Elizabeth Goitein‏ @LizaGoitein 4 Oct 2016
          Replying to @emptywheel @JameelJaffer and

          It can be, but according to NSA/PCLOB, they can't scan just the packets not the content

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 4 Oct 2016
          Replying to @LizaGoitein

          I don't read PCLOB as saying that. They specifically talk packet sniffing, @JameelJaffer @charlie_savage @normative

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 4 Oct 2016
          Replying to @emptywheel @LizaGoitein

          And specifically say they can get selector that is in From line. @JameelJaffer @charlie_savage @normative

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 4 Oct 2016
          Replying to @emptywheel @LizaGoitein and

          Yeah, but might be hard to distinguish an “original” header from a forward.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 4 Oct 2016
          Replying to @normative

          Right. Point being one application of upstream to get emails from non-prism providers @LizaGoitein @JameelJaffer @charlie_savage

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 4 Oct 2016
          Replying to @emptywheel @LizaGoitein and

          Would be very surprised if they don’t have a way to get “from” targets via PRISM.

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 8 more replies

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