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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. Electrospaces‏ @electrospaces 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel well, these are the general procedures, and most of what NSA is doing is under EO 12333

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @electrospaces

      @electrospaces No. She says quite clearly says the scope only applies to non-bulk. Almost all of what they do is bulk.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Electrospaces‏ @electrospaces 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel Well, that depends on the definition of "bulk collection" - And I don't think the XKeyscore buffer is considered "collection"

      4 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @electrospaces

      @electrospaces Again, read PPD 28. They make it quite clear there is temporary (XKS) and permanent, which is most of their spying.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Electrospaces‏ @electrospaces 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel I will take a look. But still, that doesn't mean that the same or similar procedures won't apply to bulk collection

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @electrospaces

      @electrospaces Well, she didn't say that. She was QUITE CLEAR that what she describes does not apply to bulk.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Electrospaces‏ @electrospaces 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel It's a strange distinction imo, but what do you think this says about procedures for the bulk collection?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @electrospaces

      @electrospaces I think this entire report is a dodge to hide how privacy problematic their bulk collection is--as PPD-28 was too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Electrospaces‏ @electrospaces 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel I agree that that suspicion easily comes up because of that distinction between targeted and bulk - i'll check the PDD-28

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. M FILM‏ @dametzger 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @electrospaces

      @electrospaces @emptywheel Sorry, but what's PDD-28?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 7 Oct 2014
      Replying to @dametzger

      @dametzger PPD: Presidential Policy Directive. https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1006318/2014sigint-mem-ppd-rel.pdf … He claimed it limits spying but it doesn't. @electrospaces

      2:03 PM - 7 Oct 2014
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. M FILM‏ @dametzger 7 Oct 2014
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @electrospaces I honest to God didn't think "collect it all" happened as it's sooo profoundly inefficient.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Electrospaces‏ @electrospaces 7 Oct 2014
          Replying to @dametzger

          @dametzger Yes, therefore bulk collection is just an extra step, before the targeted filtering and collecting comes in @emptywheel

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 7 Oct 2014
          Replying to @electrospaces

          @electrospaces Look, we KNOW they were collecting it all even here in US w/phone dragnet, and Internet dragnet went somewhere @dametzger

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. M FILM‏ @dametzger 7 Oct 2014
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @electrospaces But you're also claiming they're collecting CONTENT of 215 bulk telephony, correct?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 7 Oct 2014
          Replying to @dametzger

          @dametzger No. @electrospaces

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Electrospaces‏ @electrospaces 7 Oct 2014
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @dametzger Strangely enough we haven't seen any internal NSA docs about domestic 215 metadata collection

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 7 Oct 2014
          Replying to @electrospaces

          @electrospaces By "we" I assume you mean "Those who haven't read the reams of FISC documents released"? @dametzger

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Electrospaces‏ @electrospaces 7 Oct 2014
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel I mean, documents like colorful internal NSA presentations and such, not the FISC things of course @dametzger

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 3 more replies
        1. M FILM‏ @dametzger 7 Oct 2014
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @electrospaces Thanks.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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