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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 6 Sep 2014
      Replying to @charlie_savage

      @charlie_savage Anyway, headed to bed. But MY point is that Goldsmith laid out precisely arg he got KK to use: Smith.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Charlie Savage‏Verified account @charlie_savage 6 Sep 2014
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel Your pt was that Goldsmith cited Smith for 4A, so Congress is powerless. You are wrong bc Goldsmith ALSO said FISA/TIII trumped.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Charlie Savage‏Verified account @charlie_savage 6 Sep 2014
      Replying to @charlie_savage

      @emptywheel What I don't understand is why he said that for Internet data, but was cool with phone data. Something about installing device?

      7 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Patrick Toomey‏ @PatrickCToomey 7 Sep 2014
      Replying to @charlie_savage

      @charlie_savage I believe the obstacle was finding a way to compel internet cos. to create metadata records prospectively. @emptywheel

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 7 Sep 2014
      Replying to @PatrickCToomey

      @PatrickCToomey But prob was providing legal basis for telecoms to provide Internet data voluntarily. @charlie_savage

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Patrick Toomey‏ @PatrickCToomey 7 Sep 2014
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel If email metadata was being provided "voluntarily," what statutory prohibition was the obstacle for OLC? @charlie_savage

      6 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 8 Sep 2014
      Replying to @PatrickCToomey

      @PatrickCToomey @emptywheel @charlie_savage Backbone providers & ISPs DON'T CREATE any records of email metadata, prospective or otherwise

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Patrick Toomey‏ @PatrickCToomey 8 Sep 2014
      Replying to @normative

      @normative Yes, thanks—was more about what statute prohibited the program, even if it was an NSA device voluntarily installed @emptywheel

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 8 Sep 2014
      Replying to @PatrickCToomey

      @PatrickCToomey @emptywheel Why not §1809? I don’t see any “unless the telecom is OK with it” exception.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Patrick Toomey‏ @PatrickCToomey 8 Sep 2014
      Replying to @normative

      @normative If PR/TT and Upstream programs rely on same tech, how can PCLOB say no ability to isolate metadata from content? @emptywheel

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 8 Sep 2014
      Replying to @PatrickCToomey

      @PatrickCToomey Distinct possibility that one gimmick to Goldsmith is treatment of that as two different functions. @normative

      6:17 PM - 8 Sep 2014
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 8 Sep 2014
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @PatrickCToomey As FISA defines it, metadata is content

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 8 Sep 2014
          Replying to @normative

          @normative Not sure what you mean? Bates got there, but KK did not. @PatrickCToomey

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 8 Sep 2014
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @PatrickCToomey I mean, "content" as defined in FISA includes metadata. ECPA makes a distinction; FISA doesn't.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Patrick Toomey‏ @PatrickCToomey 8 Sep 2014
          Replying to @normative

          @normative Gov't told FISC that PR/TT wasn't collecting content, just metadata; now, under 702, say they can't distinguish. @emptywheel

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation

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