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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. Joseph Lorenzo Hall‏ @JoeBeOne 15 Aug 2013

      Levison's comments during the DN interview of Nicholas Merrill seem to hint heavily that he received a FISC order http://m.democracynow.org/stories/13828 

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 15 Aug 2013
      Replying to @JoeBeOne

      @JoeBeOne That's fascinating, bc it doesn't sound like Indiv warrant, it shouldn't fit under 702. So is it a 215 order?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Joseph Lorenzo Hall‏ @JoeBeOne 15 Aug 2013
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel I suppose a 215 "get us all keys" order might fit... although a FISA wiretap assistance seems to fit too. :/

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 15 Aug 2013
      Replying to @JoeBeOne

      @JoeBeOne Maybe one of the productive ways to figure this is what FISA Court can give you that Title III cannot. Why not use Title III?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Joseph Lorenzo Hall‏ @JoeBeOne 15 Aug 2013
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel now you have thoroughly exhausted my abilities, but I suspect it could be the gagging and lower standard? @normative ?

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 15 Aug 2013
      Replying to @JoeBeOne

      @JoeBeOne @emptywheel Mainly the gag. Unlikely to be 215/NSL if they needed to retrieve user keys stored client-side to decrypt.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 15 Aug 2013
      Replying to @normative

      @normative @JoeBeOne already noted that Levison suggested FISC approved, so not NSL. Why aren't client-side keys "tangible things"?

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 15 Aug 2013
      Replying to @emptywheel

      @emptywheel @JoeBeOne ...ordering the recipient to burglarize someone else's house to produce their records.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 15 Aug 2013
      Replying to @normative

      @normative I would agree with that. But clearly interpretation here is rather crazy, so would they? @JoeBeOne @charlie_savage

      6:58 AM - 15 Aug 2013
      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 15 Aug 2013
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @JoeBeOne @charlie_savage But as I understand it, they'd need to force them to create a record from normally ephemeral data...

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 15 Aug 2013
          Replying to @normative

          @normative Yeah, I just think we don't yet know significance to changing from Business Record to Tangible Thing. @JoeBeOne @charlie_savage

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Joseph Lorenzo Hall‏ @JoeBeOne 15 Aug 2013
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @normative @charlie_savage word

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 15 Aug 2013
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @JoeBeOne @charlie_savage So PR/TT or full ElSur (or conceivably even physical search) sounds like a better fit.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 15 Aug 2013
          Replying to @normative

          @normative Given that Moalin may be one of 2 presentations to court on 215, I find that notable. @JoeBeOne @charlie_savage

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. Julian Sanchez‏ @normative 15 Aug 2013
          Replying to @emptywheel

          @emptywheel @JoeBeOne @charlie_savage If the needed credentials ever pass through Lavabit's system, MAYBE they could stretch 215 too...

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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