5. @emptywheel , there was an explainer after the Scooter Libby case that discusses the process of a pardon returning fines:http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2007/07/can_scooter_get_a_refund.html …
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6. "Treasury can't issue a refund—even if that person is later exonerated. For Libby to get back his 250 Gs, Congress would need to pass a law to make the funds available. Or it's possible that President Bush could issue a customized presidential pardon that specifies a refund."
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Also, the form of "clemency" means a great deal. Is it just commutation? If so then likely little to no effect on financial portions of sentence. If full pardon, then it gets more complex, but even there forfeiture protection may not be complete at all.
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One observation: If Trump goes beyond a simple pardon to a "customized pardon" to return millions to Manafort, I think the strength of an obstruction of justice and bribery case against Trump increases - both legally and politically. Has to part of the calculus.
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All that assumes he has anyone who could pull this off competently. I don't see his one competent lawyer, Flood, even attempting this, bc it is legally stupid, up to and including for power of the president.
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Hey Obama had good lawyers and didn't do the advance commutation for Cartwright that he arguably shoulda done instead of a pardon. Very few experts in the nuances of clemency.
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Replying to @joshgerstein @emptywheel and
1 of those few experts just emailed: The Laura, 114 US 411, 414 (1885)(“the president, under the general, unqualified grant of power to pardon offenses against the United States, may remit fines, penalties, and forfeitures of every description arising under the laws of congress”)
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The Laura! I assume any criminal forfeiture as noticed in the indictments, would be covered by a full pardon. That said, there are other forfeiture vehicles. Now the Feds "may" have served themselves by not concurrently noticing civil forfeiture (real parallel proceedings!!"
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we know there were separate legal actions to seize/freeze some of his accounts...how precisely they're linked I'm not clear since that info still under seal..but it seems like a move to freeze assets allegedly subject to forfeiture in the DC criminal case https://politi.co/2NamWy0
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You said discussions on some of that was unsealed in prior transcripts though?
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In any case, in case y'all didn't see @awprokop's point that EDVA forfeiture DOES seem tied to counts 29 and 30 (which makes the stakes of retrial quite high).
https://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/180817-Forfeiture-Verdict.pdf …
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Replying to @emptywheel @joshgerstein and
What verdict form indicated, yes. But the superseding indictment listed counts 24-32. And under their inclusion of 28 USC §2461 language, does that mean civil forfeiture is still available? I don't honestly know, but, again, think the forfeiture question more complex than assumed
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Replying to @bmaz @joshgerstein and
SCO confirmed it was only tied to 29 and 30.
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Replying to @emptywheel @joshgerstein and
Again, there is a difference between criminal and civil.
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