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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Aug 20

      Reminder: There are 18 charges to deliberate over in the Paul Manafort case. There's a shit-ton of numbers involved, and some confusing legal issues.

      33 replies 254 retweets 1,077 likes
      Show this thread
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Aug 20

      No one outside the jury room knows one way or another how deliberations are going. But for now, assume good faith and diligence on the part of the jury, bc that's what usually happens. And bc this is not a simple case.

      3:34 PM - 20 Aug 2018
      • 84 Retweets
      • 571 Likes
      • BleuCheckmark megan 🌿 mb Melanie McDonald JMillspiii BingoBango sedespres Elliot Malmberg Lindamarie
      26 replies 84 retweets 571 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Sue Duff‏ @Wolvie58 Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          i agree- but a little niggling part of my brain wonders about the bench conferences today and that last day about the jury before the trial was over.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Aug 20
          Replying to @Wolvie58

          THe bench conferences are almost certainly debates about how much of the prior bench conferences can be unsealed. Manafort made a bid to reveal part of the case in chief to his co-conspirators and Mueller is trying to prevent that from working, is all.

          2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
        4. Sue Duff‏ @Wolvie58 Aug 21
          Replying to @emptywheel

          ahh- okay. ty. what do you think that one was that everyone said was about the jury- what they could hear or not? i know that was one- but there seemed to be one where it was almost like they were thinking a juror had done something wrong

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Freedom Fries #VetsResistSquadron‏ @FriesFreedom Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel @nycsouthpaw

          And please stop dumping on the jury for doing their due diligence. Especially if you’ve never been on a jury and think it’s a walk in the park. It’s not. It’s human drama in a deliberation room. It can get ugly.

          2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        3. Barnette Lloyd‏ @Gabe203 Aug 20
          Replying to @FriesFreedom @emptywheel @nycsouthpaw

          Anyone who works in an office knows how hard it is to build consensus on one thing. Now imagine 12 strangers with varying professional and educational backgrounds trying to agree on 18 things

          0 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. jan b Rabbit Hole Monitor‏ @janbResists Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          All 12 have to agree to convict or let go, that will take time too. Keeping positive

          0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
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        1. Joe Sudbay‏ @JoeSudbay Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          I've served on two juries (as lawyer, would never have been allowed to serve if not in DC). Our cases were much less complicated, but still took awhile to work through all the issues. 18 charges will take awhile

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        1. girly nyc‏ @girlynyc Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          Yes. In federal civil cases involving similar financial complexity there is generally no jury, for this reason.

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        1. Virginia Scharff‏ @VirginiaScharff Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          A careful, diligent jury is a thing of beauty and a vital democratic institution. Here is hoping we have one here.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1.  🌎 Infogarden  🛸‏ @liberty_42 Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          Fulsomely agreed re Manafort jury Assume perhaps a process as robust & deep as this https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0050083/ … But obviously a different subject matter, and hopefully a result in the converse direction

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. Holly #KavaNAH  ⚖️ 🐾 👩🏼‍🔬 🌊 🗺 🎗‏ @lilpol83 Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          There’s also probably visual evidence that prosecution didn’t get to present due to time constraints. It’d take time to go through it all.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Christian Delante‏ @DelanteMedia Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          12 Scooter Libby case took 10 days to deliberate on 5 counts. Oliver North jury took 12 days to deliberate on 12 counts. Both guilty. Manafort jury is being asked to decide 18 counts.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Richard Owen‏ @oneeye88 Aug 21
          Replying to @emptywheel

          Trump knows, that slimy SOB probably has someone on the jury to make things go the way he wants. Everything that involves Trump is corrupt and cannot be trusted!

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Kennard Rose‏ @kennardwins Aug 21
          Replying to @emptywheel

          No evidence can sway a Trumplican. How many happen to be on the jury?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. New conversation
        2. jogoldbe‏ @Chijogoldbe Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          Appreciate this 100%. But in the world of trial lawyers, you grasp for the straws you can, and this is traditionally a sign of positive for the defense. See eg, rod blagojevich’s first trial.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. jogoldbe‏ @Chijogoldbe Aug 20
          Replying to @Chijogoldbe @emptywheel

          But that is also to say that everything could be taking time and we 1000% don’t know. But i will wager anyone on his thread that the data show that the longer the jury takes, the better it is for the defense.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. zDNA 🔥‏ @zDNA13 Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          In serial rapist's trial, jury asked can victim be in fear for her life if she's unconscious? WTF? But ended up finding defendant guilty on all charges. Hard to know jury's mind. Post-verdict said they just wanted to be sure couldn't find him NG on single charge (98 counts).

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Mr Christie‏ @realMrChristie Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          Manafort has unlimited funds and unprecedented power including support from Trump and Putin. His fixers just need to influence one of 12 vulnerable non sequestered to secure his freedom. Whether from threats, bribes or blackmail he is going home this week.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. constitution is in writing for a reason‏ @Wojadubakowske Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          I don't get the purpose of all the accts saying it's taking too long. even when I point out the documents issue (thanks EW for that) they push back. duuno know if they're false "friends"(flags) or what ... but what's the strategic purpose (on SM) of pushing "jurors disagree"?pic.twitter.com/Xx4PkxIudz

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Susan Azim Boyer‏ @susanjenna Aug 20
          Replying to @emptywheel

          I recently served on a criminal jury and was amazed at how thorough and fair the deliberation process was.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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