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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. Ira Goldman  🦆 🦆 🦆‏ @KDbyProxy Aug 6
      Replying to @emptywheel @pbump

      Agree on #1; I was focusing on what Bump wrote re camp fin laws. As for #2, absolutely. It's the cutout (or cut-out) issue, and the question is re liability of HRC's campaign & its people. A gives X to B – Illegal – yet – A gives X to C who gives it D who gives it to B – Legal?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Aug 6
      Replying to @KDbyProxy @pbump

      You have to add in $ signs to make it clear Hillary paid and Trump did not.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Eric Columbus‏Verified account @EricColumbus Aug 6
      Replying to @emptywheel @KDbyProxy @pbump

      Exactly — it’s legal under campaign finance laws for a campaign to pay for dirt from foreign sources. If you pay for it, you’re not being gifted a thing of value.

      2 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
    4. Ira Goldman  🦆 🦆 🦆‏ @KDbyProxy Aug 6
      Replying to @EricColumbus @emptywheel @pbump

      But didn't Steele get his info from an analog to Trump's Natalia Veselnitskaya? If that person wasn't paid, how is it different?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Aug 6
      Replying to @KDbyProxy @EricColumbus @pbump

      Trump's sub-sources were paid.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Eric Columbus‏Verified account @EricColumbus Aug 6
      Replying to @emptywheel @KDbyProxy @pbump

      Do you mean Steele’s not Trump’s?

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    7. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Aug 6
      Replying to @EricColumbus @KDbyProxy @pbump

      Yes. I did. Thanks.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    8. Ira Goldman  🦆 🦆 🦆‏ @KDbyProxy Aug 6
      Replying to @emptywheel @EricColumbus @pbump

      Tbc, I get that Steele sub-contracted other people to gather info. But if any of the sub-sub-sub-sub sources were foreign nationals, provided a "thing of value", but weren't paid, I still see a paradox(?) here if the simple fact that all the ppl upstream were paid makes this OK.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Aug 6
      Replying to @KDbyProxy @EricColumbus @pbump

      That doesn't make sense. What matters is that Hillary didn't get it for free.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    10. Ira Goldman  🦆 🦆 🦆‏ @KDbyProxy Aug 6
      Replying to @emptywheel @EricColumbus @pbump

      No. What matters is that any1 who provides a "thing of value" is fully compensated. Or, it shd. Otherwise, a foreign power/person need only slip a valuable dirt report to an outside contractor doing oppo research & as long as that contractor is paid per contract… It's all good?!

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Aug 6
      Replying to @KDbyProxy @EricColumbus @pbump

      Ah, I see your point. But Steele's sources were: A) Ignorant that their blather would end up in a paid oppo research document, so not willfully offering anything OR B) Russians planting disinformation in Hillary's attempt to raise oppo research, which has value for Trump

      2:04 PM - 6 Aug 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • 4 Likes
      • Mothra54 Bix busticated IBrake ForAnts
      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Ira Goldman  🦆 🦆 🦆‏ @KDbyProxy Aug 6
          Replying to @emptywheel @EricColumbus @pbump

          "Ah, I see your point." Thank you! (srsly) And if that's how, in effect, the campaign finance law applies (ie, have enough middlemen & you're fine), it's silly. Yet I am old enough to know that that is how laws work sometimes. (for all I know, ppl say that about some I wrote)

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. IBrake ForAnts‏ @ibrake4ants Aug 6
          Replying to @KDbyProxy @emptywheel and

          I agree! Would we feel it was any less illegal/immoral if Trump had paid the Russians? But yet that would've gotten him off??? I want there to be other reasons to differentiate these two situations (Trump/Russia vs the Hillary/Steele), but I guess there aren't any??

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Ira Goldman  🦆 🦆 🦆‏ @KDbyProxy Aug 6
          Replying to @ibrake4ants @emptywheel

          Just to clarify, from what I know about what Steele did, I don't see any violation of campaign-finance law regarding a "thing of value" being rec'd w/o it being paid for. I just used the Steele story, and added some hypothetical bits, to help flesh out some legal issues.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. IBrake ForAnts‏ @ibrake4ants Aug 6
          Replying to @KDbyProxy @emptywheel

          I know but my point is I feel there are moral/ethical differences that don't have anything to do with the law.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. End of conversation

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