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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9

      Something I've been wondering about Michael Cohen. Trump (at least publicly) soured on Cohen after he was raided, allegedly bc he was worried Cohen was wearing a wire. But Trump ALSO saw what was in Cohen's files. Wonder if he saw CYA files?

      10 replies 21 retweets 84 likes
    2. ǝʌɐp‏ @empiricalerror Jul 9
      Replying to @emptywheel

      if trump thought cohen had something truly damaging on him (i.e. something more than just "trump paid off this or that woman to keep quiet about an affair"), don't you think he'd treat cohen differently?

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
      Replying to @empiricalerror

      He didn't treat Flynn differently. Flynn flipped for precisely the same reason Cohen is considering it, bc he felt betrayed.

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
    4. ǝʌɐp‏ @empiricalerror Jul 9
      Replying to @emptywheel

      flynn wasn't in trump's orbit long enough to know much. and trump tried to get comey to lay off flynn. trump still speaks favorably of flynn.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
      Replying to @empiricalerror

      I'm not sure how that makes your point. Both men felt/feel betrayed, regardless of all the nice things Trump now says to write off Flynn's behavior as something he didn't order hidden. But my original Q was about something else.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. ǝʌɐp‏ @empiricalerror Jul 9
      Replying to @emptywheel

      my point is you're comparing apples and oranges when you liken the flynn situation to the cohen situation. in other words: your argument (the comparison) doesn't speak to my original question at all, as far as i'm concerned.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
      Replying to @empiricalerror

      I guess I was offering an alternative explanation for his behavior that goes to my question. Let me put it this way. Dick Cheney discovered Alberto Gonzales had a CYA file of Stellar Wind/Torture docs in 2007. His RESPONSE to discovering that was...interesting.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
      Replying to @emptywheel @empiricalerror

      OK, I'm back. So what Cheney did in response to learning someone had a CYA file was use it to undercut value of CYA file later on. Trump, on the other had, would lash out if someone were trying to protect themselves, sort of like he's doing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. ǝʌɐp‏ @empiricalerror Jul 9
      Replying to @emptywheel

      trump never lashed out at flynn, though? so i'm still missing something, obviously. and trump started shunning cohen long before cohen ever made any moves to protect himself (no job in admin, etc.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
      Replying to @empiricalerror

      I guess it depends on what you consider "lashed out." He did say he had to fire Flynn bc he lied. And he did use that whack line w/Comey. Both of which I consider deception.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
      Replying to @emptywheel @empiricalerror

      I think we're just saying two different things. I think I'm positing a negative reaction -- unrelated to Russia or any other subject matter -- based on behaviors Trump may have seen evidence of in Cohen's files. 1/2

      1:48 PM - 9 Jul 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
          Replying to @emptywheel @empiricalerror

          You seem to be saying that Flynn had more damaging info on Trump and that is why Trump is nicer to him than Cohen? I think other things may explain the disparate treatment.

          2 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
        3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
          Replying to @emptywheel @empiricalerror

          In any case, all of that assumes Trump would know what was damaging.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. ǝʌɐp‏ @empiricalerror Jul 9
          Replying to @emptywheel

          that sort of goes to my point. i think trump's behavior towards cohen indicates that he's not really worried about what (he believes) cohen has or could provide to the feds. whether trump is *right* about that is a different matter, that i agree with.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
          Replying to @empiricalerror

          And I'm just suggesting that he might be motivated as much by a sense of whether someone is loyal to him, which is consistent with other things you've said. I don't think he thinks Cohen has the pee tape, FWIW.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. ǝʌɐp‏ @empiricalerror Jul 9
          Replying to @emptywheel

          my hangup here is that trump started treating cohen like shit *before* cohen ever displayed even a hint of potential disloyalty.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
          Replying to @empiricalerror

          I get that and to some degree agree with that. But Cohen felt that he was being loyal, at least, until recently. If we can believe what he says. In Trump's world, I think treat like shit ≠ betray.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jul 9
          Replying to @emptywheel @empiricalerror

          In any case, I was mostly raising the question bc if Trump learned Cohen (for example) recorded calls with him and they cut him off, what he would do if he learned same about Manafort.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Willis Warren‏ @warisill Jul 9
          Replying to @emptywheel @empiricalerror

          you're suggesting that the CYA file for Cohen would be a recording of trump saying "pay my hooker off" and a CYA file for, say, Flynn would be a recording of trump telling him to "make a deal with the Russians, whatever they want besides Ivanka"

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        10. End of conversation

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