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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jun 14
      Replying to @sfmnemonic @OrinKerr and

      You don't think a large number of IC professionals think of our information operations as different than Russia's? Or even our hacking?

      4 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Troll McTrollski‏ @TrollMcTrollski Jun 14
      Replying to @emptywheel @sfmnemonic and

      You don't think it's different, at all? I may be a hypocrite, but I do believe it is different, when a "civilized", democratic country *) does it, vs. a backward dictatorship. *) the distinction may be moot point in a year or two, true.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jun 14
      Replying to @TrollMcTrollski @sfmnemonic and

      I believe there is a difference in kind and use, more applicable to China than Russia. I believe the US plays games with distinctions between public/private/contractor/managed criminal that are ultimately just that, games.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jun 14
      Replying to @emptywheel @TrollMcTrollski and

      But I think anytime anyone is justifying one's behavior by invoking "civilization," it's a surefire, century's old sign they're dodging.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Troll McTrollski‏ @TrollMcTrollski Jun 14
      Replying to @emptywheel @sfmnemonic and

      Yes, and one may convincingly argue that it contributed to this country's ongoing slide into not-so-civilized-after-all. But let me narrow it down. It's the presence of democratic oversight and accountability (however imperfect!) that constitutes the crucial difference for me.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Troll McTrollski‏ @TrollMcTrollski Jun 14
      Replying to @TrollMcTrollski @emptywheel and

      There's a chance, even if it's slim, of somebody like, say, you bringing up attention to the govt. doing these things, actually resulting in policy reversals, legislative efforts, etc. In places like China and Russia they can do it on arbitrary whims; w/ no accountability.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jun 14
      Replying to @TrollMcTrollski @sfmnemonic and

      I'd say that's a fair distinction between internal use. That is, RU can and does hack its own citizens in problematic ways (including to collect evidence to kill them). 1/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jun 14
      Replying to @emptywheel @TrollMcTrollski and

      But Jack's piece is abt international use. That's a harder distinction to make. Especially since most of our hacking/info ops v Russia is done under EO 12333, where there's only limited Congressional oversight.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Troll McTrollski‏ @TrollMcTrollski Jun 14
      Replying to @emptywheel @sfmnemonic and

      I was actually thinking international ops; but a) yes, I assumed (being naive?) that there had been some changes/there was some degree of society control/a possibility of such 2) I was thinking of it in broader terms - not just cyber, but invasions/bombings/drone attacks 1/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Troll McTrollski‏ @TrollMcTrollski Jun 14
      Replying to @TrollMcTrollski @emptywheel and

      But don't get me wrong - I'm not 100% positive I'm NOT a big fat hypocrite; thinking that when our airforce bombs a hospital it's better than when RU does it; just because there may be a congressional hearing and some general [sometimes] ends up going into an early retirement 2/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jun 14
      Replying to @TrollMcTrollski @sfmnemonic and

      Snowden only really affected our drone activities by making it harder for other countries to cooperate. And our accountability on bombing MSF, such as it is (no Generals retired), also needs to account for our enabling of Saudi Arabia, not exactly a democracy.

      8:15 AM - 14 Jun 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Troll McTrollski‏ @TrollMcTrollski Jun 14
          Replying to @emptywheel @sfmnemonic and

          To clarify, the last 2 tweets were not specific to Snowden. I was explaining my earlier one, "democratic oversight is what makes us different". I had that illusion (?) in 2008, that I was witnessing just that. GWB got us into a terrible war, the society realized it and elected...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. End of conversation

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