Conversation

Robert Haisfield

@RobertHaisfield

Sep 27

Replying to

@ejames_c

At least with the last example, “no amount” seems unreasonably strong… perhaps “good note taking is not necessary or sufficient to…”

Replying to

No, I’d go with no amount. I know people who take great, beautiful notes, of books, better than mine (and that’s a high bar) and then absolutely fail at application. They make up some reason for why they can’t apply the thing, because it’s painful or takes persistence and give up

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and

I’m increasingly coming around to the idea that agency and good writing/note taking are orthogonal skills, and both are desirable, but both have no relation to each other.

Replying to

and

Actually “is painful or takes persistence” are legible reasons for why people fail at application. A pernicious, less legible, more interesting version is “unable to let go of their existing lenses, and so block themselves from internalising the worldview needed to make it work”

Replying to

I acknowledge the personality factors you point to that make it difficult to apply insights learned, and that those factors are orthogonal to the quality of notes that a person takes. However…

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and

Do you believe that if someone puts in the effort to engage more deeply with the material and retain more of it has not increased their likelihood of effective application? Hard to argue against that, but given your valid personality points I get to “not necessary or sufficient”

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This is the thing I'm trying to get at. I THOUGHT that people who engage more deeply with the material and retain more would increase their likelihood of effective application. I'm heavily biased to believe that. And yet I have two counter-examples.

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My experience here is consistent with

@andy_matuschak

's observation that the most effective readers and thinkers he knows do not take notes.

notes.andymatuschak.org

The most effective readers and thinkers I know don’t take notes when reading

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and

Similarly, some of the most effective operators I know don't take good notes. (I suppose you could add this to my list of counter-examples, which bumps it from 2 to ... 5?) My current conclusion is that there's something else at play that is unrelated.

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So what do you think is the difference? Some actually internalize the concepts? Internalize the mental frameworks? And the other just take great notes and understand them deeply?