Cedric Chin on Twitter: "@ben_mathes @scottjenson @gordonbrander @stefanomaz I'm mostly thinking this: https://t.co/FWiICHHIV2 and also how SQLite is considered a long-term archival format for data by the US Library of Congress. https://t.co/UJIxKTu68c" / Twitter

I posted a more impassioned blog post: The future needs files I've wrestled with this post for months as it's a topic so many misunderstand. I've tried to explain why files are so powerful, we don't appreciate what we've lost with Mobile OSes. jenson.org/files/

20

60

170

Replying to

Have you and

crossed paths? I think files is a very good interop base. The more semantics in the files though, the less interop you seem to get. I wonder if the semantics ends up in the app that operates on the files, and that's what people will want.

3

7

Replying to

and

Like maybe you can take your files with you, but you can't take your meaning. efficient frontier might be: What file formats have the most semantics?

1

5

Replying to

and

My sense is that the connection between semantics and interoperability is a lot more ambiguous, and there is no 1:1 connection.

2

3

Replying to

and

I like

's insight here, that interoperability is emergent, and emerges around product-market fits. These are heavily contingent, and I think can span a range of tight, loose, open, closed semantics.

Quote Tweet

Gordon Brander

@gordonbrander

Aug 28, 2021

“Interop is a process not a thing.” @stefanomaz

Show this thread

2

1

Replying to

and

Absolutely. BRB adding “emergent semantic slop” to my quarterly OKRs to test if I get fired 🙃

1

2

Replying to

and

There is a gradual line between "Files with proper metadata" and "a database". A database has the potential to be much more seamless but also much more locked down and inflexible. Files are the QWERTY keyboards of data, they are just good enough

2

5

Replying to

This is interesting. What if the file was a SQLite database?

2

1

Replying to

Each file would have varying schema. Or: calling a database a "file" does not make it not a database

Quote Tweet

Scott Jenson

@scottjenson

Aug 31, 2021

Replying to @ben_mathes @gordonbrander and @stefanomaz

There is a gradual line between "Files with proper metadata" and "a database". A database has the potential to be much more seamless but also much more locked down and inflexible. Files are the QWERTY keyboards of data, they are just good enough

1

2

Replying to

however, maybe you are saying something unintuitive or subntle that I'm missing. Make the case?

1

Replying to

I'm mostly thinking this: twitter.com/andy_matuschak and also how SQLite is considered a long-term archival format for data by the US Library of Congress. sqlite.org/locrsf.html

Quote Tweet

Andy Matuschak

@andy_matuschak

Aug 20, 2021

Maybe someday automerge’s serialization format will be as durable and universal as SQLite’s, but in the meantime, it’s certainly not amenable to casual concurrent local access in some user script.

Show this thread

5:48 PM · Aug 31, 2021TweetDeck

Replying to

I hear you, but it sounds like orthogonal concerns. SQLite is perfectly fine as an archival standard but that's separate from the desire for the data to also be grouped, share and manipulated by a wide range of people and processes.

1

2

Replying to

Point well made, and well taken. I've read your post so I know where you're coming from. I suppose I'm just playing around with this idea that we need not worry so much about designing file formats — which is difficult! — if we just use SQLite + a plain txt schema + versioning.

1

Show replies

Conversation