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eigenrobot Retweeted bosco
on the other hand theres like semmelweis and thishttps://twitter.com/selentelechia/status/1392157498698715136?s=19 …
eigenrobot added,
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ok a physician has just had a phone call with me laying out a bunch of helpful information i will append it in fifteen after eating a plate of tendies in the mean time my apologies to
@HMBrough_ and the other physicians of twitter for being Too Mad Online1 reply 0 retweets 69 likesShow this thread -
ok. central claim: ICUs specifically tend to be awful places to be for a patient, and not only because of sleep deprivation. however, 1. ICUs tend to be places where patients stay for the minimal amount of time possible 2. this is partly because they are terrible to be in, but
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. . . partly because economics have led to a sort of Just In Time approach to ICU beds where they often operate close to capacity and so there's not much leeway to keep people in for longer than needed
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so, the extent to which patients are kept in the ICU is in a sense a min-maxing outcome, and there aren't a lot of dollar bills lying on the ground "we are making you psychotic" yes but imagine the counterfactual where you werent in an ICU which seems reasonable
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the margin on which things might be improved is on identifying specific treatments that require ICU-level badgering/monitoring and determining they don't actually help things eg maybe measuring blood pressure every 60s doesnt generally improve outcomes in some case
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the problem with this is that once a treatment is used in practice it becomes difficult to do research demonstrating that no actually its not helping even tho it seems like it should (IRBs dont like denying people what seems like an important treatment just to see what happens)
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so, this margin for dialing back treatment intensity is pretty inflexible in practice, and not for crazy reasons
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Replying to @eigenrobot
My wife often tells families, "You don't need to do this (horrible, invasive surgery that won't cure them and will cause them pain)." (obviously for patients who will die regardless) Some families want _everything_ always.
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related from @robinhanson, perhaps of interest to her
https://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/showing-that-yo.html …
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