I will say that there are some topics on which @eigenrobot's social-cluster (the prototypical "post-rat", I think?—whatever that means) can sustain genuinely higher-quality discussion than Eliezer's social-cluster just on account of being less politically constrained. 2/6
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Replying to @zackmdavis @davidxu90 and
Zack M. Davis Retweeted Zack M. Davis
E.g., I linked Eigen to my review of the new Charles Murray book—& the absolute madman retweeted it! So-called "rationalists" with a 501(c)(3) to protect can't do that kind of thing. Probably the right decision if you're focused on xrisk! However 3/6https://twitter.com/zackmdavis/status/1397374754659528705 …
Zack M. Davis added,
Zack M. Davis @zackmdavisReplying to @eigenrobot @extradeadjcbIf you're already up to speed on the Science from other sources (effect sizes, GWAS, twin studies, &c.), the metagame of working out why this knowledge is Considered Toxic is worth pondering: http://unremediatedgender.space/2020/Apr/book-review-human-diversity/ …1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes -
Replying to @zackmdavis @davidxu90 and
If mainstream "rationalists" want to make that compromise, I think it's really unfair for them/us to SIMULTANEOUSLY market them/our-selves as "always right"—a one-stop-shop for general-purpose correctness. That's false advertising! No social group owns reasoning itself! 4/6
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Replying to @zackmdavis @davidxu90 and
This public epistemology problem is far more general than my particular obsessions, but since you asked—EY has been (admirably) explicit that discussion in his Caliphate can't contradict Blue Tribe dogma—see comment starting w/"THE DISCLAIMER" under https://www.facebook.com/yudkowsky/posts/10159421750419228 … 5/6
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Replying to @zackmdavis @davidxu90 and
Scott is also (admirably) explicit that he's not trying to be right when being right would get him in trouble! Again, that's pretty reasonable in itself! But crucially, Scott does not market himself as "always right"!! https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/23/kolmogorov-complicity-and-the-parable-of-lightning/ … 6/7
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Replying to @zackmdavis @davidxu90 and
For explanation of why I think censored discussions preclude a characterization of "always right" (which I think should be a VERY high standard!), see https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/DoPo4PDjgSySquHX8/heads-i-win-tails-never-heard-of-her-or-selective-reporting … and https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MN4NRkMw7ggt9587K/firming-up-not-lying-around-its-edge-cases-is-less-broadly … 7/7
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Replying to @zackmdavis @davidxu90 and
I perceive a huge gap between "Me and my friends wrote some super-great blog posts about epistemology, which anyone can read and apply, even to topics that me and my friends aren't interested in" (good! true!) and "Me and my friends are always right" (false advertising) 8/8
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Replying to @zackmdavis @ESYudkowsky and
To my mind, the defining feature of the “post-rat” social cluster is its refusal to commit itself to a solid epistemology (and general disdain for clusters who *do* so commit themselves). 1/n
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Replying to @davidxu90 @zackmdavis and
I don’t really associate the social cluster in question with particular individuals (e.g.
@eigenrobot), but I do think the social origins of said cluster have strong causal ties (to say the least!) to some who were dissatisfied with the existing rationalist community. 2/n1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes -
Replying to @davidxu90 @zackmdavis and
The existence of this causal link, combined with your obvious dissatisfaction with some members of what you term the “Caliphate”, cause me to worry that you (Zack) might start espousing similar views of rationality (namely, that it doesn’t exist) as the post-rat cluster. 3/n
2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
im skeptical that we endorse the view that rationality doesnt exist. i would frame my personal view as "object-level rationality is an indispensable framework for dealing with many problems but it has its limits and drawbacks, and a richer toolkit is desirable"
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Replying to @eigenrobot @zackmdavis and
Thanks; that may be a better way of putting it. I don’t claim to be an expert on post-rat epistemology (though I will say you guys don’t make it easy!), so it’s always good to have a correction on record.
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