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eigenrobot's profile
eigenrobot
eigenrobot
eigenrobot
@eigenrobot

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eigenrobot

@eigenrobot

robot. friend.

eigenrobot.substack.com
Joined July 2013

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    1. Shea Levy‏ @shlevy Feb 15

      10 episodes in and @eigenrobot has had 2 guests who were former Objectivists. And the other day found out randomly that a mutual had read most of Rand's nonfiction. How many of you are there out there? Would be really interested to understand why you moved on.

      9 replies 0 retweets 28 likes
    2. proteales‏ @pr0teales Feb 15
      Replying to @shlevy @eigenrobot

      I was flirting with objectivism in high school. I moved away largely by abandoning the idea that total decentralization is a workable, scalable model (in any context). Nested hierarchy and federation is more effective in all arenas: computing, governance, business, finance, etc

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    3. Shea Levy‏ @shlevy Feb 15
      Replying to @pr0teales @eigenrobot

      Interesting! Could you say more about what about Objectivism makes you think it's opposed to nested hierarchy and federation? The only thing to that effect I know about is Rand's opposition to one world government, otherwise I don't know that she said much about hierarchy per se.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. proteales‏ @pr0teales Feb 15
      Replying to @shlevy @eigenrobot

      She believed that a desirable society can emerge solely from decentralized choices made by individuals. Regulations, or "threat of force" are a spectrum of possible hierarchical structures that are necessary unless you believe that decentralized decision making is effective.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. proteales‏ @pr0teales Feb 15
      Replying to @pr0teales @shlevy @eigenrobot

      e.g. when the govt taxes gasoline to move towards cleaner vehicles -- that more centralized/hierarchical decision to optimize our energy usage did not emerge (and I believe would not have been coordinated) by decentralized choices. I believe Rand would oppose such things, yes?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Shea Levy‏ @shlevy Feb 15
      Replying to @pr0teales @eigenrobot

      She would've been opposed, but not on the grounds of centralization/hierarchy. On the grounds that even if the outcome in question were a good one (I doubt it is, FWIW), reaching it by force ultimately undermines the values at stake.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. proteales‏ @pr0teales Feb 15
      Replying to @shlevy @eigenrobot

      Yeah, I'm not arguing that she was motivated by this, just that her worldview (unless she was just pro-chaos) depends on decentralized choice being something that actually works. I personally no longer believe that it does.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Shea Levy‏ @shlevy Feb 15
      Replying to @pr0teales @eigenrobot

      I think you're conflating centralization through force with centralization per se.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. proteales‏ @pr0teales Feb 15
      Replying to @shlevy @eigenrobot

      I'm probably omitting nuance due to bird-app, but the key is that effective coordinated decision making at scale without force/hierarchy is not something that ever actually happens. In order to believe that you can do this without force, you have to believe that it does.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      eigenrobot‏ @eigenrobot Feb 15
      Replying to @pr0teales @shlevy

      i mean what are markets even

      11:26 AM - 15 Feb 2021
      • 1 Like
      • Shea Levy
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. proteales‏ @pr0teales Feb 15
          Replying to @eigenrobot @shlevy

          Incentives are awesome, but I don't think they give coordinated choices at the level of the market. A market gets individual participants to optimize (make widgets better/faster/cheaper), but coordinated choice? Maybe the real disagreement is whether coordinated choice is good?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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