10 episodes in and @eigenrobot has had 2 guests who were former Objectivists. And the other day found out randomly that a mutual had read most of Rand's nonfiction.
How many of you are there out there? Would be really interested to understand why you moved on.
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Replying to @shlevy @eigenrobot
I was flirting with objectivism in high school. I moved away largely by abandoning the idea that total decentralization is a workable, scalable model (in any context). Nested hierarchy and federation is more effective in all arenas: computing, governance, business, finance, etc
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Replying to @pr0teales @eigenrobot
Interesting! Could you say more about what about Objectivism makes you think it's opposed to nested hierarchy and federation? The only thing to that effect I know about is Rand's opposition to one world government, otherwise I don't know that she said much about hierarchy per se.
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Replying to @shlevy @eigenrobot
She believed that a desirable society can emerge solely from decentralized choices made by individuals. Regulations, or "threat of force" are a spectrum of possible hierarchical structures that are necessary unless you believe that decentralized decision making is effective.
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e.g. when the govt taxes gasoline to move towards cleaner vehicles -- that more centralized/hierarchical decision to optimize our energy usage did not emerge (and I believe would not have been coordinated) by decentralized choices. I believe Rand would oppose such things, yes?
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Replying to @pr0teales @eigenrobot
She would've been opposed, but not on the grounds of centralization/hierarchy. On the grounds that even if the outcome in question were a good one (I doubt it is, FWIW), reaching it by force ultimately undermines the values at stake.
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Replying to @shlevy @eigenrobot
Yeah, I'm not arguing that she was motivated by this, just that her worldview (unless she was just pro-chaos) depends on decentralized choice being something that actually works. I personally no longer believe that it does.
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Replying to @pr0teales @eigenrobot
I think you're conflating centralization through force with centralization per se.
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Replying to @shlevy @eigenrobot
I'm probably omitting nuance due to bird-app, but the key is that effective coordinated decision making at scale without force/hierarchy is not something that ever actually happens. In order to believe that you can do this without force, you have to believe that it does.
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i mean what are markets even
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Replying to @eigenrobot @shlevy
Incentives are awesome, but I don't think they give coordinated choices at the level of the market. A market gets individual participants to optimize (make widgets better/faster/cheaper), but coordinated choice? Maybe the real disagreement is whether coordinated choice is good?
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