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    1.  🦌‏ @kilovh 19 Jun 2019

       🦌 Retweeted

      This places the line between what can and can't be measured in an odd place, is always my problem with it https://twitter.com/Chris_arnade/status/1141350267960664064 …

       🦌 added,

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      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Andrew Stratelates  ⚓ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 ☦️ Trad Anglican‏ @AStratelates 19 Jun 2019
      Replying to @kilovh

      paraphrasing a quote, it tends to go something like this: First they measure what is easy to measure, which is all well and good, but then they forget about things that are hard to measure, and then what becomes measurable becomes the goal, and finally the goal no matter what.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Andrew Stratelates  ⚓ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 ☦️ Trad Anglican‏ @AStratelates 19 Jun 2019
      Replying to @AStratelates @kilovh

      Not taking time to think of the second and third order criteria is a sort of laziness, a sort of laziness that is enabled and encouraged by bureaucracies where those making the decision have no skin in the game.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4.  🦌‏ @kilovh 19 Jun 2019
      Replying to @AStratelates

      Not sure if I agree

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Andrew Stratelates  ⚓ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 ☦️ Trad Anglican‏ @AStratelates 19 Jun 2019
      Replying to @kilovh

      If it's not laziness, it's malevolence or ignorance. Any other option that I'm missing?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. eigenrobot‏ @eigenrobot 19 Jun 2019
      Replying to @AStratelates @kilovh

      think I actually mostly agree A lot of my job is (i) measuring things; (ii) watching the teams I work with overindex on those things I'm measuring; (iii) scrambling to measure new things that are obviously important but suddenly ignored because something else is better-measured

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      eigenrobot‏ @eigenrobot 19 Jun 2019
      Replying to @eigenrobot @AStratelates @kilovh

      This, in line with struggling against the problem of (iv) dealing with incentivized workers trying to hit goal metrics at the cost of everything because It's What I'm Evaluated On and (v) the inevitable fallout from Campbell's Law

      8:20 AM - 19 Jun 2019
      • 2 Likes
      • John Buck 🇺🇸 Andrew Stratelates ⚓🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿☦️ Trad Anglican
      4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. eigenrobot‏ @eigenrobot 19 Jun 2019
          Replying to @eigenrobot @AStratelates @kilovh

          It's better in our case than for governments though because the company actually cares about a clear measurable objective in the end (and we experiment Relentlessly) whereas (i) politicians care about reelection and (ii) a society has no clear long term objective

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. Andrew Stratelates  ⚓ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 ☦️ Trad Anglican‏ @AStratelates 19 Jun 2019
          Replying to @eigenrobot @kilovh

          Which is one of Ackoff's insights: Give a manager a target on a metric, and he'll meet that target, even if it costs the business to do so.

          0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
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        1. New conversation
        2.  🦌‏ @kilovh 19 Jun 2019
          Replying to @eigenrobot @AStratelates

          Okay, I feel like I'm on the same page now at least (my mutuals are so smart and so polite that that they speak obliquely and subtly and sometimes I go charging in the wrong direction) So, I agree strongly that the quantitative measurement used for corporate/econ decisonmaking

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3.  🦌‏ @kilovh 19 Jun 2019
          Replying to @kilovh @eigenrobot @AStratelates

          can throw real people under the bus and that in general it leads to epistemic corruption &c. &c. all well and good but I don't think this captures the full breadth of the problem at least as a moral issue (what ought we do to profit without hurting others, e.g.) because

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. New conversation
        2. John Buck  🇺🇸‏ @WriterJohnBuck 19 Jun 2019
          Replying to @eigenrobot @AStratelates @kilovh

          Tangentially related, but with Trumps bragging of the jobs increase, I wonder whether how much of this increase in metric (if any) is due to people taking on multiple part-time jobs, rather than focusing entirely on a full-time one.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. eigenrobot‏ @eigenrobot 19 Jun 2019
          Replying to @WriterJohnBuck @AStratelates @kilovh

          oh plausibly macroeconomic data have never not been fucked

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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