I've been chewing on a thing and I want to write about it a bit but I need to, sadly, expose my object level beliefs in advance so that I am really clearly understood at the meta. I do not have strong feelings about abortion policy, apart from a very hard preference . . .
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perceived threats and injuries to sacred objects produce emotion whose intensity is not a function of the magnitude of any concrete harm
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this is the most correct and compact and general explanation you will encounter, i am 100% right
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this tweet is absolutely correct but how exactly did this become sacred is maybe whats interesting to me
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how did women become sacred objects? they always were
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domain-specific sanctity
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Why do you think pro-choicers should not see it as a vital issue? From their perspective - okay, it's not literally murder, but it's temporarily disabling. Maybe the equivalent of people having their arms broken for the crime of having sex.
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Even in a dramatic case of abortion being outlawed nationally, most bad outcomes (vs status quo ante) could and probably would be averted by behavioral adaptation. Contrast w other policies that definitely kill lots of people that are not similarly opposed by hard prochoice folx
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Ah yes. Banning abortion might seem to lead to more (presumably happy) lives, but actually just leads to people having less sex. Hence we should permit abortion for everyone except rape victims.
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aaaaghhhhhh! I am not making any argument on policy and certainly not those Bad Arguments ^^
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yes, and i think one more dangerous step further: radicals who realize that they can manifest political opposition to themselves, are best positioned to shift the overton window in their favor
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oh frig
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torture for 9 months is not a valid reason? bodily autonomy is not a valid reason? helloooooo?
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The problem is that murder is sort of an ethical trump card
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There's a large population of people who Very Sincerely Believe that termination is murder of an innocent and the notion is basically axiomatic and cannot be debated
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no amount of reframing pregnancy as torture or appeal to bodily autonomy is going to sway anyone who possesses a strong belief that it's murder
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That's not what Eigen is trying at, though, he's trying to get why people are passionate about bodily autonomy, which seems easy to me. I am saying torture is a valid reason to object rather than collapsing to the will of the people who jump to arguing its murder.
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I mean, I could say killing cops isn't murder all day long but they're still going to prosecute because everyone else thinks it's murder so unless I articulate why I don't think it's murder I have no hope of winning that argument.
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I think people who say they believe its murder don't actually, because they aren't willing to bring to bear overwhelming force on the matter even when they have it, often aren't even willing to advocate overwhelming force, and just shuffle their feet when confronted with it.
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And yeah, sure, a few do, I'm just saying everyone else goes to bat for less.
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1/I think the issue is that pro-choice people see anti-abortion laws as coercion meant to force women to give over their bodies to men and, at great personal pain, grow an alien inside of them. It is seen as sort of a state-sponsored, slow motion rape, which is of a piece with
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or it's about hypergamy in the majority of cases and this other stuff is mainly pretext for self-interest, i.e., politics as usual.
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The fact there may be a hidden unconscious layer to professed political beliefs does not vitiate the need to understand and be able to address the political beliefs. By analogy, anxiety has an unconscious and conscious component, with one feeding the other.
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Sure, I just mean that at the political scale I think you'll get more robust insights from the cynical approach because at that level it's closer to evolution than good logic. Like convergent evolution, what matters is the trait, how it's produced, less so.
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I think there's a word from anthropology about the perspective from within a belief system that I'd really like to remember right now.
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Thank God, I remembered, what a relief. It's actually nomothetic and idiographic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomothetic_and_idiographic … I lost track of what point I was going to make with it lmao but it was useful to keep the discussion clearer, with internal dyn. of belief : politics :: idio : nomo
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