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eigenrobot's profile
masquerobot
masquerobot
masquerobot
@eigenrobot

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masquerobot

@eigenrobot

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Joined July 2013

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    1.  👻 anyone who's done anything for areo magazine  🎃‏ @gypsy_panther Jun 8
      Replying to @gypsy_panther @sonyaellenmann and

      Personally, I couldn't even stand killing raccoons that were destroying things in the garden—the actual farm animals' deaths—ones I or my friends had a hand in raising—made me want to vomit. It never really gets less messed up.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
      Replying to @gypsy_panther @sonyaellenmann @MorlockP

      my wife hunts and is fine with animal slaughter but she's probably pretty close to temple grandin tempermentally i personally cannot do these things i worked in a laboratory where we did unspeakable things to animals and would leave work and drink to incoherence

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    3.  🤖 Sonya Mann  🎀‏Verified account @sonyaellenmann Jun 8
      Replying to @eigenrobot @MorlockP

      Oh god, I'm sorry, that sounds really traumatizing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
      Replying to @sonyaellenmann @MorlockP

      oh I mean I'm okay but it did leave me pretty convinced that nearly all animal research is both evil and useless

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
      Replying to @eigenrobot @sonyaellenmann @MorlockP

      masquerobot Retweeted

      related https://twitter.com/eigenrobot/status/936044119217995776 …

      masquerobot added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6.  🤖 Sonya Mann  🎀‏Verified account @sonyaellenmann Jun 8
      Replying to @eigenrobot @MorlockP

      I don't agree with this because I don't weight animal suffering and human suffering the same.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
      Replying to @sonyaellenmann @MorlockP

      I don't either but I don't weight it zero and what's done in labs is (i) utterly ghastly, Mengele-level shit, and (ii) frequently gratuitous and also (iii) a complete waste of time and money I can talk about what I did if you have a strong stomach

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    8. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
      Replying to @cunningcorvid @sonyaellenmann @MorlockP

      ok sure! I'm drinking now, so no problem going to untag everyone else after this, feel free to read on if you like folks

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
      Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

      ok so my first lab was a corvid lab, strictly behavioral we trained em to hop on perches following lights, and to make choices about when to have food delivered this was cool and good, I had no problem with this

      4:24 PM - 8 Jun 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • foo evie 👻 anyone who's done anything for areo magazine 🎃
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          the next animal lab I worked in was birdsong neuroscience and this is what I had a problem with there were two main classes of protocols: in vivo neural monitoring, and cytology the cytology was . . . okay. ish. birds had to be killed to collect their brains . . .

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          so that we could slice them finely, for staining. The particular method of sacrifice, which was the working euphemism for killing, was a really gruesome approach called perfusion, where the chest was sliced across laterally at the aorta so the heart could exsanguinate the animal

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          The animals had to be alive for this, but they were deeply deeply and irreversibly anaesthetized, so while it was horrible to watch they didn't feel it. The in vivo monitoring was much worse I think.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          The protocol here involved monitoring (i) certain discrete regions of the bird's brain, in real time, using implanted wires; and (ii) tracking their (sometimes silent) production of song by measuring air pressure in their lungs.

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        6. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          in order to do (i), we performed surgery that involved slicing off the top of the animal's skull; implanting a microelectronic array that included a protruding chip you could plug into a monitor wire; then resealing the brain with a cement.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          for (ii), we created a sort of miniature backpack for the bird. a flexible plastic tube led from the backpack to the bird's side, where there was an incision that led to the lung. The tube was stitched in place . . . badly.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        8. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          The birds wore the backpacks/tubes full time and always had the chip sticking out of their replacement skull. When we monitored their behavior, they were placed in special boxes where a wire ensemble on a swivel was plugged into their chip. They spent long stretches like this.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        9. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          So this is already pretty grotesque on paper. We were really diligent about pain--you know, birds in pain don't sing, and give bad data in any case. But things frequently went badly.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        10. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          Basically, the apparatus was not well designed. Sometimes the skull cap just fell off, leaving a bird hopping around unattended with an exposed brain. Sometimes the pneumatic tube would come out, leaving an unattended bird with a sucking chest wound.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        11. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          In those cases--I don't remember, I think we would usually just come back to find a dead bird. A tube once came out when I was in the lab. I was not qualified or able to put it back in, and after some panicking recalled the protocol was to kill the bird.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        12. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          So, for that, procedure was (i) to knock out the bird with gasseous anaesthetic, really hardcore knock out; and then (ii) decapitate it in the sink with a medical scissors. Which I did. Home, drink.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        13. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          Another time, for some reason, we had to put a bird down in the colony (which was in another building). This was probably the worst killing. They didn't have anesthetic available at the colony, and there were no tools for a quick death available.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        14. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          What they *did* have was a machine that generates carbon dioxide in a sealed chamber. The thing about carbon dioxide is that (contra carbon monoxide) is that it doesn't put you to sleep; it just suffocates you. There are horrible stories of slave indigenous miners . . .

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        15. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          in the Andes falling into low spots in silver and mercury mines (full of CO2, because no air circulation, and CO2 is dense) and everyone standing at the side watching them suffocate. And this was the initial approach to killing Jews et al in Poland, but the executioners . . .

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        16. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          all just quit on the spot after listening to people dying in the back of cars they were driving around. Anyway, it was like that. Watching this little bird desperately trying to breathe and thrashing around for 45s while it suffocated in a plastic box.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        17. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          Home. Drink.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        18. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          The piece de resistance was that the research was basically garbage. I mean--the research was fine, we learned some things about auditory learning in songbirds. But the research--I read the fucking grants--was funded on the grounds that songbird vocal learning was a model . . .

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        19. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          for human auditory learning. SURPRISE. It is not a good model for humans. Songbirds have two discrete brain regions that are core for vocal learning. Neither are present in human brains.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        20. masquerobot‏ @eigenrobot Jun 8
          Replying to @eigenrobot @cunningcorvid

          Anyway, that's the story of how I tortured and killed birds and burned god knows how much taxpayer money for a bit of knowledge with no appreciable gain in health or utility for humans. Sigh. Home. Drink. /fin

          1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
        21. 12 more replies

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