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edwinbrady's profile
Edwin Brady
Edwin Brady
Edwin Brady
@edwinbrady

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Edwin Brady

@edwinbrady

CompSci Lecturer. Go player. Programming language researcher. Idris hacker. Denies knowledge of Whitespace. He/him. http://tinyurl.com/TypeDD 

St Andrews
eb.host.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk
Joined November 2008

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    1. Alex Fedorov‏ @waterlink000 22 Aug 2018
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      Also, with strong type systems (that encode behavior checks) how do I go about writing code incrementally and evolving the design as I go?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Florian Gilcher ∠(・.-)―〉 →◎‏ @Argorak 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @waterlink000

      Most strong type systems have special constructs that unify with everything. E.g., unimplemented!() in Rust. Also, sometimes, languages allow you to forward errors to Runtime. It’s not as good as dynamic languages, but there’s ways.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Florian Gilcher ∠(・.-)―〉 →◎‏ @Argorak 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @Argorak @waterlink000

      It’s a hidden gem of Idris that it’s actually built around incomplete programs in development, a thing @edwinbrady has given some good talks about.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Edwin Brady‏ @edwinbrady 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @Argorak @waterlink000

      Indeed. Types can evolve as well as programs. I generally refine the types as my understanding of a problem develops.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Alex Fedorov‏ @waterlink000 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @edwinbrady @Argorak

      @edwinbrady could you share a link to a post or a video, where there is a small example of parallel evolution of types and the implementation, so that I can understand how it looks in practice better?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Florian Gilcher ∠(・.-)―〉 →◎‏ @Argorak 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @waterlink000 @edwinbrady

      I've seen this one: http://events.techcast.com/bigtechday9/barcelona-0900/?q=barcelona-0900 …

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Edwin Brady‏ @edwinbrady 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @Argorak @waterlink000

      I don't know if I have anything nice and concise that talks about this specific idea though. There's a few in passing in http://tinyurl.com/typedd  but I suppose this might be a good topic for another talk some time...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Florian Gilcher ∠(・.-)―〉 →◎‏ @Argorak 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @edwinbrady @waterlink000

      Well, it sold me quite good on it while I was actually just waiting for Alex Crichton speaking after :). But yeah, it's an hour and I don't think it's ready-made examples. Need to rewatch.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Alex Fedorov‏ @waterlink000 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @Argorak @edwinbrady

      I’m watching the talk right now (~20min), and it got me thinking: TypeDD doesn’t seem to force me to decouple my code. That is one of the reasons I use TDD — it forces me to do that, and only to an extent needed (kind of like a sweet balanced spot).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Alex Fedorov‏ @waterlink000 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @waterlink000 @Argorak @edwinbrady

      Somewhere around ~30min I’ve come to the realization that the “append” example is not exhaustively verified by the type: Only the lengths have to be right. If my algorithm screws up the order or does something else to values, this type definition is not concerned with that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Edwin Brady‏ @edwinbrady 22 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @waterlink000 @Argorak

      Yes. Types aren't there to show everything. Types and tests are completely compatible! You can, and should, write tests too.

      10:35 AM - 22 Aug 2018
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      • Alex Fedorov
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        1. Alex Fedorov‏ @waterlink000 22 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @edwinbrady @Argorak

          I agree, totally. There are definitely folks who are looking at dependent types with shining eyes and telling to themselves that it is their salvation from tests (I know at least one friend of mine, and there are few folks around on Twitter). That misunderstanding is bothering.

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