Happy to see you still working on this. Still hope you'll change the title when it's done.
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Replying to @KirinDave @marick
I like what I’ve read so far but have similar feelings about the title
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Replying to @py @KirinDave
What don't you like about the title? (
@KirinDave: if you already told me, I've forgotten.)2 replies 0 retweets 1 like -
Oh, just that it's sort of a negative attitude. Optics are *weird* but most folks can make functor lenses before they understand even other core concepts like Monads. In fact, I argue if you're teaching folks FP, you could teach them lenses before Monads.
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They have a bad rep because of historical reasons, and so I just dislike language that continues the narrative that they're crazy complex. In reality, they're not so bad.
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I love the text though and I think it's a wonderful project to help create a bridge for many folks who are not amenable (for many fair reasons) to learning FP from first principles.
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Replying to @KirinDave @py
Makes sense. I agree. Indeed, the second sentence of the book description echoes your point: "They're notoriously hard to learn, but I believe that's a historical accident." So the title is to draw people in who'd otherwise dismiss the book as yet another opaque lens tutorial.
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(It's not a historical accident, really, not exactly. It is, I believe, a symptom of a systemic issue in static FP culture. But I've already fought - and lost - that battle.)
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Is this a good time to admit I've never felt I've understood lenses? I'm not sure I'm a proper static FP person (and I think I'm okay with that...)
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I think mirrored lenses get pretty crazy when you want to make them performant. But Edwin, if one as lamentably uneducated as me can teach 16 year olds how to write van Laarhoven lenses from scratch, you have some slim chance to grasp them.
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I certainly hope so, it'd be a really useful thing to know! (Also, that sounds really cool...) I put that really badly (sorry), but I think what I'm trying to work out is why people think FP concepts sound hard when they're not.
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Lamentably uneducated rubes like me have to learn how to use the lingo common. Learning to read PL papers was a huge bit of homework to start feeling comfortable in Haskell-land when I'd run across stuff like Recursion Schemes.
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Ah. Yes, if PL papers are the only place to look, we're probably doing really badly at outreach. And documentation. (Thanks to
@marick among others for helping here! But we do need to try harder.)2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes - 6 more replies
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