Evan Urquhart

IMO it's not real on a systemic level, if anything. cis men absolutely do suffer from misogyny, though, and patriarchal gender role enforcement.

Sure. I guess my understanding of misandry is that it is very much intertwined with gender role enforcement. Misandry and misogyny are ultimately part of a system of gender compliance...

The expectation upon AMAB folk to fulfill a masculine role is damaging on an individual (if not systemic) level. Its not a popular opinion and I will probably get some shit for saying this but a lot of transmisogyny is misandry. The idea that all men and all AMAB people are...

violent, sexual predators is misandric. The ways in which men are generally excluded from aspects of parenting and caregiving are about maintaining that gendered status quo. Misandry gets reflected in things like mental health outcomes, homelessness stats, lower life expectancy.

Not to speak for trans women, but I think the community concluded that the threat of playing into the idea that they're "really" men outweighs any detriment of less-clear language, And, I think that could be a valid concern for trans men as well...

...in deciding if we want to talk about how sexism/misogyny impacts us honestly, vs reinforcing WE ARE MEN in all language. The calculation is different bc of the relative social position of men and women. Saying WE ARE MEN too strongly risks being itself misogynist.

Help me understand why saying that we are men too loudly is misogynistic? I only speak for myself here, but I fought hard to be authentically me. How does my pride in existing harm women?

Bc WE'RE MEN NOT WOMEN was long ago coded as something cis men say when they're saying they're not wimpy.