Well fwiw the point of the essay is that the LW take is seriously misleading and close to the root of how they misunderstand everything.
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Replying to @utotranslucence @meditationstuff and
It’s closer to the front of the queue than most of the 475258 unfinished bits! Tx for feedback; helps me prioy
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Replying to @Meaningness @utotranslucence and
I'm some combination of another '+1 would read this post' and 'oh god I wasted so much time trying to understand what LW meant by that 3 years ago and never want to think about it again, but would still read this post' :)
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Replying to @drossbucket @utotranslucence and
Our intermittent emails about it have been very helpful or very unhelpful depending partly on whether I ever finish it
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Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and
Current framing: the representation/reality relationship is the CENTRAL and unsolvable problem for rationalism. Maps are highly atypical representations: the relationship is much simpler than most.
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Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and
LW uses “map” instead of “representation” in order make it seem like the relationship is straightforward *in general*. That hides the central problem on which the whole story founders.
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Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and
I think this is semi-deliberate: they found that thinking in terms of “maps” instead of “representations” clarified their thinking considerably, so they went with it. Indeed, it does make the story much more precise & tractable, at the cost of making it much more wrong.
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Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and
The essay undermines this by pointing out the even literal maps don’t work anything like the way LW uses the word. There’s tons of nebulosity in there, not just uncertainty or imprecision. (But less nebulosity than with most representations)
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Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and
Maybe this idea about “entanglement” and “mutual information” could focus the criticism a bit? This seems to underpin Yudkowsky’s general conception of representation.pic.twitter.com/i0uqS3McCh
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I only vaguely know this particular post, but 3 years ago I got the idea that EY had a coherent story on representation and I just had to work out what it was. so god help me I ended up reading a pile of sequences posts, Arbital pages and ancient pdfs...
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Replying to @drossbucket @JakeOrthwein and
... I was motivated by the fact that sometimes (as in your screenshot) he shows an understanding that representation should ground out in interaction somewhere. But exactly how he wants that to work is hugely contradictory across his writing, and sometime flat out absent...
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Replying to @drossbucket @JakeOrthwein and
Never wrote it up properly (and I'd write it differently now anyway) but here are some rough notes, tl;dr it's a mess https://drossbucket.com/newsletters/march-2018/ … I never got to the mutual information stuff, which would only add to the mess :)
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