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drossbucket's profile
Lucy Keer
Lucy Keer
Lucy Keer
@drossbucket

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Lucy Keer

@drossbucket

Some crackpot. Interested in 'mathematical intuition', whatever that is.

Bristol, UK
drossbucket.wordpress.com
Joined June 2017

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    1. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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      Negative probability thread! (it's the tweet version of this blog post, as an experiment: https://drossbucket.wordpress.com/2019/08/01/negative-probability/ …)

      6 replies 52 retweets 181 likes
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      Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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      I'm not going to go too much into why people get interested in negative probabilities in the first place. For that (as for so many things) the best place to go is a blog post by @johncarlosbaez:https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2013/07/19/negative-probabilities/ …

      9:07 AM - 3 Aug 2019
      • 9 Likes
      • Ankur Arora Vincent R.B. Blazy stasmix Xiaofan Hu Share DVI Daniel Adamec Tequehead NIDHAL SELMI - نضال السالمي John Carlos Baez
      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          Instead I'm going to go through an example that shows *how* they work. I got this one from another excellent blog post, by @sigfpe: http://blog.sigfpe.com/2008/04/negative-probabilities.html … I like it because the numbers are nice and simple.

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
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        3. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          So we have the following setup (from that post): "a machine produces boxes with (ordererd) pairs of bits in them, each bit viewable through its own door"

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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        4. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          Now we ask 3 questions: 1. Is the first box in state 0? 2. Is the second box in state 0? 3. Are the boxes both in the same state? Obviously these overlap: e.g. to be consistent, if you answered Y to 1. and N to 2., you'd also answer N to 3.

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        5. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          So, for YNN, we learn that box 1 is definitely in state 0 and box 2 is definitely in state 1. We can represent this as the following probability distribution over possible pairs of states:pic.twitter.com/7XV6lwH2Cc

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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        6. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          OK, nothing very clever here! Now for an inconsistent set, NNN. Both boxes are in state 0, but... they're also in different states? Turns out you can still assign a 'probability' distribution. Sort of. Scare quotes because one 'probability' is negative:pic.twitter.com/P5v6tjbway

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        7. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          Given this, it all works. E.g. for question 1 P(first 0) = P(first 0, second 0) + P(first 0, second 1) = -½ + ½ = 0 So answer is N. Same for the others.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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        8. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          Now, where that -½ comes from was a bit opaque to me. I mean I could follow the algebra, just didn't have much intuition for how it got there. So I played around for a while and came up with the following.

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        9. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          Motivating idea: NNN is inconsistent, so all four possible assignments don't work. But {first box 0, second box 0} is *especially* bad. It's the wrong answer to all three questions. Other three boxes are only the wrong answer to one question.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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        10. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          So... we penalise bad answers, and, because {first box 0, second box} is particularly bad, it gets clobbered three times instead of just once, driving it negative. That's vague. But I'll outline a precise version.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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        11. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          Start with the consistent, YNN example, and ask the questions in turn. Before you start you are completely ignorant - probability ¼ of all boxes. After first question you narrow it to two boxes. View this as adding on a correction term:pic.twitter.com/HiqFHfcil8

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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        12. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          You can add one of these correction terms for the other two questions as well, ending up with the same as before:pic.twitter.com/58Fzyh4IvC

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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        13. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          And it also works for the inconsistent, NNN example! You can see how the bottom left box gets clobbered by the successive -¼s, as in my vague motivation at the start.pic.twitter.com/8mgW5CvKT2

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
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        14. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          Is this trick any use? I really don't know! But I definitely find this breakdown more illuminating than just plugging through the algebra.

          1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
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        15. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          Now the reason I'm interested in this is the link to quantum physics. This toy model is very similar to phase space for a qubit. In some sense it's slightly 'worse', as -½ is more negative than anything that comes up there. But the simple numbers make it easy to play with.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
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        16. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket Aug 3
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          For more information on how all this relates to quantum physics, see my follow up post: https://drossbucket.wordpress.com/2019/08/01/negative-probability-now-with-added-equations/ … May try a thread version of that one, too, but that'll be harder work. This is enough for today!

          1 reply 0 retweets 11 likes
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        17. End of conversation

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