Table of contents from the part of the Eggplant book explaining why rationalism can’t work. As you can see, I was only able to complete it by including a lot of whimsical examples to amuse myself.pic.twitter.com/4Wq20swOJK
Some crackpot. Interested in 'mathematical intuition', whatever that is.
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Table of contents from the part of the Eggplant book explaining why rationalism can’t work. As you can see, I was only able to complete it by including a lot of whimsical examples to amuse myself.pic.twitter.com/4Wq20swOJK
I suspect that that orange/green/yellow thing hints at an answer: deconversion narratives talk about how you discovered that X is totally false. But moving on to yellow doesn't feel like totally renouncing orange; it feels like building a more sophisticated version of it.
Going from a child to an adult doesn't feel like renouncing the understanding of the world that you had as a child, even if much of your old understanding was wrong. It just feels like your understanding gradually getting better.
(this is why I also dislike the whole rationality vs. meta-rationality terminology: it's creating an artificial distinction and a tribal narrative, when IMO there's just a continuous refinement and increasing sophistication of the art of rationality)
Got to go to work, but... I like the river analogy here: https://vividness.live/2015/10/12/developing-ethical-social-and-cognitive-competence/#comment-7352 … Overall continuous process but in sections the way forward is counterintuitive so people pile up. A sharp distinction doesn't make sense to me either, but something like this does.pic.twitter.com/xS7TtuVWlA
Agreed. Not obvious that it has to be this way, though: rationality to meta-rationality looks counterintuitive mostly because of how rationality has been traditionally conceived. But some people seem to go to meta-rationality directly. I think most could, with right explanation.
Or maybe I should say that some people seem to learn rationality and meta-rationality in an intertwined way, so that meta-rationality never looks counterintuitive because it's been part of the lesson all along.
An excess focus on rationality, neglecting the meta-rational aspects, looks to me more like something produced by tribal signaling ("our thinking is better than that of emotion-only hippies"), psychological insecurities or autism spectrum traits rather than a logical necessity.
This ties back to what @everytstudies said in the quoted thread - "it would be way easier to absorb [the constructivist lesson] from people who didn't come off as hostile". Meta-rationality wouldn't be so counterintuitive if its ideas weren't associated with a hostile tribe.
Thanks for the replies! Yeah, I've read the first bit of @everytstudies podcast transcript and liked the social constructivist example too (also reminds me I should read some of those people). I agree that the transition could be made easier...
e.g. by showing what's on the other side of pomo ideas. I think the transition would still be fairly difficult even without the hostility though, so maybe we disagree on that.
Maybe? My main grasp of rationalism is LW rationalism, which I realize is slightly different than David's main critique - but still, when I started reading the Sequences, a lot of it felt like a scientific explanation of that pomo stuff my humanities friend talked about.
Hm, yes OK that is surprising to me, I didn't get anything like that out of the LW sequences (I've only read parts, and relatively recently). Which bits are you thinking of, out of interest?
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