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drewg__'s profile
drew
drew
drew
@drewg__

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drew

@drewg__

electronic trading technologist, illiquid commodity futures enthusiast, hedge fund/HFT apologist, big idiot

NYC
Joined April 2009

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    1. drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30

      The third and final argument against PFOF is that there is a data/information advantage that is conferred to MMs because they get to see retail flow first.

      1 reply 0 retweets 17 likes
      Show this thread
    2. drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30

      For example, if a MM sees retail flow directionally tilted towards selling, they will quote their bid on-exchange lower than the NBB.

      1 reply 1 retweet 19 likes
      Show this thread
    3. drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30

      This has an effect on competition in the market making industry: other MMs without this data face disproportionately higher adverse selection when their orders execute at an NBBO price which is “crumbling” or otherwise quickly changing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 13 likes
      Show this thread
    4. drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30

      And it’s worth mentioning here that this factors into why there have been so few new retail equity MMs in the last ~20 years: MMs have to work to set up these relationships with retail brokerages and create commercial arrangements to buy flow.

      1 reply 0 retweets 19 likes
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    5. drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30

      The combination of the information advantage conferred by PFOF plus the duopolistic concentration in equities wholesaling means that the two largest firms in effect have strong knowledge of the direction of the NBBO, pricing others out of the business.

      1 reply 0 retweets 19 likes
      Show this thread
    6. drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30

      However, we should be clear that the information advantage does not equate to MMs “frontrunning” their clients, it merely means they are pricing differently than their competitors outside the NBBO and getting picked off at lower rates.

      5 replies 0 retweets 28 likes
      Show this thread
    7. drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30

      Anyway I hope this was helpful, I’m sure I made mistakes and typos as i wrote this in a few minutes after the twitter space. i also left out some deeper cases in the effort to stay brief and readable. anyway jump into the replies to yell at me all you want 💯

      11 replies 0 retweets 62 likes
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    8. Adam‏ @SleepyCuppaJoe Sep 30
      Replying to @drewg__

      Are you talking about *best prices for retail in terms of cents per share while the market makers possess the software and privileges to move the price in dollars or tens of dollars to their advantage? to induce certain buy and sell behavior in their retail counterparties?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30
      Replying to @SleepyCuppaJoe

      when i talk about "best price" generally i mean the NBBO, although as noted in the thread there are issues surrounding how that term is defined

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Adam‏ @SleepyCuppaJoe Sep 30
      Replying to @drewg__

      Can you take a look at this intraday price action. Stock declines $140 in the middle of the day on no news, no catalysts and low volume. Can MM execute these kind of moves to their own advantage and at the detriment of retail traders?pic.twitter.com/znbPoLA6UF

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30
      Replying to @SleepyCuppaJoe

      a market maker would widen out their quotes in a scenario like that, probably they would make a lot more money important to remember that in general the cost of liquidity goes up as a function of volatility

      8:39 PM - 30 Sep 2021
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Adam‏ @SleepyCuppaJoe Sep 30
          Replying to @drewg__

          My contention is MM can make moves like this intentionally, they have special "powers" under the authority of "providing liquidity and great prices for retail" but they abuse these powers to induce buying and selling behavior among small players. this was not organic selling.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Ross‏ @rosswern Oct 1
          Replying to @SleepyCuppaJoe @drewg__

          Hi Adam, I'm not sure there is any 1 mm who can push any stock around like that. They'd have to take huge directional risk, which is not normally what they do. And they def wouldn't work in tandem with other mm's - their direct competitors

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. Adam‏ @SleepyCuppaJoe Sep 30
          Replying to @drewg__

          https://www.angelfire.com/wv/VCSYDD/MMInfo/MM2.htm … explains the 🖤 of the MM. Maybe its old, maybe OTCBB doesn't apply to modern methods, but my intuition tells me, fundamental tactics haven't really changed. Are MM providing a service to humanity? Or are they predatory counterparties that want your 💰?

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