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drewg__'s profile
drew
drew
drew
@drewg__

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drew

@drewg__

electronic trading technologist, illiquid commodity futures enthusiast, hedge fund/HFT apologist, big idiot

NYC
Joined April 2009

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    1. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      16/ Again this is entirely inconsistent with the behavior of retail PFOF. Citadel and Virtu would be fighting to get the *smallest* market share possible. Not competing to handle more flow. Remember the point of follow on is “just a small taste”— not to eat the whole buffet.

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
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    2. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      17/ All of which is to say that none of the stylized facts or behavior of the market participants indicate that retail PFOF creates any significant informational for exchange market making.

      1 reply 1 retweet 12 likes
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    3. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      18/ Occam’s Razor: Robinhood’s flow is valuable because you want to trade *against* it. If one wanted to trade with it, it would defeat the entire point of internalizing it in the first place.

      3 replies 2 retweets 22 likes
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    4. drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30
      Replying to @0xdoug

      yeah this is the point i was most suspect on, i think probably what i should've said is that MMs have a broader view of liquidity and can do arb trades to offload inventory when they trade against retail flow

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    5. Chucktown Trader‏ @chucktowntrader Sep 30
      Replying to @drewg__ @0xdoug

      Def want to trade against retail, but doesn’t mean that it isn’t valuable for alphas. Total-retail = informed. Don’t know what info is available to mm and when though w/ regs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30
      Replying to @chucktowntrader @drewg__

      Potentially. But remember FINRA requires trades be published within 10 seconds. At most flow can only be proprietary for 10 seconds. I can maybe believe retail has alpha, but I can’t believe it has alpha at O(1s). The jitter alone to enter a Robinhood app order is way longer.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Chucktown Trader‏ @chucktowntrader Sep 30
      Replying to @0xdoug @drewg__

      If you see a trade hit trf, how do you know if it is a child order from big institutional or retail?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30
      Replying to @chucktowntrader @drewg__

      That's an interesting point, but feels like when the value proposition is explicitly disentangling retail from institutional flow, it's really into the weeds. It would require:

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30
      Replying to @0xdoug @chucktowntrader @drewg__

      1) Internalization desks cross firewall to prop desks 2) Retail flow non-toxic at trade level, but informative in aggregate. 3) Only visible to internalizers. Can't statistically profile exchange/FINRA to recover alpha. 4) Retail agg *more* informative than institutional flow.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30
      Replying to @0xdoug @chucktowntrader @drewg__

      Individually any of those propositions seem unlikely. Jointly, it seems like a very unlikely hypothesis. I can imagine a world where this is true. But nothing I know suggests we live in that world.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30
      Replying to @0xdoug @chucktowntrader

      the last one is almost certainly false except for in maybe a few meme names

      8:37 PM - 30 Sep 2021
      • 3 Likes
      • Chairman Birb Bernanke (🦃,🦃) emily Doug Colkitt
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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        2. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30
          Replying to @theemilyaccount @drewg__ @chucktowntrader

          Let me guess: Alcoa, IBM, 3M, CSX and Chevron!

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Show replies
        1. Chucktown Trader‏ @chucktowntrader Oct 1
          Replying to @drewg__ @0xdoug

          I’m not claiming retail is driving prices, but it doesn’t matter if retail or institutional is driving for any particular symbol/time, being able to classify 30-50% of order flow would help with alpha.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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