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drewg__'s profile
drew
drew
drew
@drewg__

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drew

@drewg__

electronic trading technologist, illiquid commodity futures enthusiast, hedge fund/HFT apologist, big idiot

NYC
Joined April 2009

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    1. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      9/ As it turns out trading against counterparties who drive the market is not a good business strategy. Which is why Robinhood is paid more for their flow than Interactive Brokers who is paid more than Credit Suisse

      1 reply 1 retweet 15 likes
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    2. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      10/ Again, all of which is the opposite of what one would expect if proprietary flow info pumped into prop trading alpha was any significant component of the PFOF business model.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
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    3. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      11/ The one exception I can think of is a game called “follow-on” trading. Certain gamer shops will target large institutional managers like Vanguard, who they know have large persistent blocks to execute.

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
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    4. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      12/ The shop tries to send a really enticing price improvement for a really small size to profile Vanguard’s flow. They then turn that flow into an alpha, then stop quoting.

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
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    5. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      13/ The most important part to understand about this game is to that you internalize the *smallest* amount of volume you can get away with. Think of it like pinging a dark pool.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
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    6. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      14/ The idea is that you bleed on a small amount of highly toxic, highly persistent flow, because you think you can turn around and execute in lit markets at larger size.

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
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    7. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      15/ (FWIW don’t feel too bad for Vanguard. They absolutely know the rules of this game. Just as often the gamers get counter-screwed when the block execution desks tease them into taking as large a clip as possible at the end of a run)

      1 reply 0 retweets 13 likes
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    8. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      16/ Again this is entirely inconsistent with the behavior of retail PFOF. Citadel and Virtu would be fighting to get the *smallest* market share possible. Not competing to handle more flow. Remember the point of follow on is “just a small taste”— not to eat the whole buffet.

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
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    9. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      17/ All of which is to say that none of the stylized facts or behavior of the market participants indicate that retail PFOF creates any significant informational for exchange market making.

      1 reply 1 retweet 12 likes
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    10. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30

      18/ Occam’s Razor: Robinhood’s flow is valuable because you want to trade *against* it. If one wanted to trade with it, it would defeat the entire point of internalizing it in the first place.

      3 replies 2 retweets 22 likes
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      drew‏ @drewg__ Sep 30
      Replying to @0xdoug

      yeah this is the point i was most suspect on, i think probably what i should've said is that MMs have a broader view of liquidity and can do arb trades to offload inventory when they trade against retail flow

      6:40 PM - 30 Sep 2021
      • 6 Likes
      • emily wine dark sea Robot James Doug Colkitt
      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Chucktown Trader‏ @chucktowntrader Sep 30
          Replying to @drewg__ @0xdoug

          Def want to trade against retail, but doesn’t mean that it isn’t valuable for alphas. Total-retail = informed. Don’t know what info is available to mm and when though w/ regs.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Doug Colkitt‏ @0xdoug Sep 30
          Replying to @chucktowntrader @drewg__

          Potentially. But remember FINRA requires trades be published within 10 seconds. At most flow can only be proprietary for 10 seconds. I can maybe believe retail has alpha, but I can’t believe it has alpha at O(1s). The jitter alone to enter a Robinhood app order is way longer.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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