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dibblego's profile
Tony Morris
Tony Morris
Tony Morris
@dibblego

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Tony Morris

@dibblego

Power ∧ Attitude ⇒ Performance

Brisbane, Australia
tmorris.net
Joined May 2009

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    1. Dmitrii‏ @dmitriid 8 Dec 2017

      - Java, unlike Haskell, is not safe because of side effects - Will Haskell code execute side-effects? - Yespic.twitter.com/yeK0zz21VW

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Diogo (f a) Castro‏ @dfacastro 8 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dmitriid

      Is this supposed to illustrate a contradiction? I don't see any.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Diogo (f a) Castro‏ @dfacastro 8 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dfacastro @dmitriid

      Or perhaps I didn't explain myself correctly. `x = readLn; [x, x]`, by itself, will NOT perform any side effects. `[x, x]` is an expression of type `[IO String, IO String]`, and that's all it is.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Dmitrii‏ @dmitriid 8 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dfacastro

      By itself readLn in Java will not do anything either. Because a program that isn’t run doesn’t do anything. As soon as you *run* it, no difference. Even the expectations and reasoning is exactly the same as in any other labguage with HoFs

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Diogo (f a) Castro‏ @dfacastro 8 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dmitriid

      I've gone through this before but ok: Java's `readLn` is equivalent to Haskell's `readLn`. And Java's `readLn()` is equivalent to Haskell's `unsafePerformIO readLn`. Difference is, you write readLn() all the time in Java, but you never write `unsafePerformIO readLn` in Haskell.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Diogo (f a) Castro‏ @dfacastro 8 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dfacastro @dmitriid

      You *can* write pure FP in Java, but you'll be fighting the language every step of the way.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Dmitrii‏ @dmitriid 8 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dfacastro

      Why? Ok, not Java but JS. Or Erlang. Anywhere you have HoFs basically (so, even Java)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Diogo (f a) Castro‏ @dfacastro 8 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dmitriid

      I can't speak for erlang, but java lacks even the most basic foundations for pure FP. You can't even combine a nullary function (Supplier<A>) with a unary function. I suspect js is equally handicapped.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Diogo (f a) Castro‏ @dfacastro 8 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dfacastro @dmitriid

      A lot of really smart people have put a lot of effort into building those foundations, and IIRC the conclusion was that it was like putting lipstick on a pig. Maybe @dibblego can fill you in on that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tony Morris‏ @dibblego 8 Dec 2017
      Replying to @dfacastro @dmitriid

      We wrote http://functionaljava.org/  in mid-2000s. We did a lot better than predicted. But it is still terrible. It was successful in teaching and transferring concepts. /cc @runarorama

      2:19 PM - 8 Dec 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        1. Dmitrii‏ @dmitriid 9 Dec 2017
          Replying to @dibblego @dfacastro @runarorama

          Java has become better since then :) (of course, there’s still a lot of room for improvement)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        2. Tony Morris‏ @dibblego 9 Dec 2017
          Replying to @dmitriid @dfacastro @runarorama

          Actually, it's become worse. It was better in 2008, when it had better lambdas, and other important bits. http://javac.info/  Now it has a broken Optional (we wrote it in 2005) and sub-standard lambdas, which even if fixed, is nowhere near minimums.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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