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danluu's profile
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
@danluu

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Dan Luu

@danluu

https://patreon.com/danluu 

danluu.com
Joined December 2008

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    1. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 16
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      This isn't just a matter of "reducing boilerplate". Right now you need too much skill to write useful inputs. That skill barrier blocks a lot of people from using PBT seriously, even if it's well-suited to their problem

      5 replies 3 retweets 33 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Bradford Larsen‏ @bradlarsen Apr 16
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      Replying to @hillelogram

      I keep saying the same thing about both fuzz testing and using static analysis tools! They are awesome, but have high startup costs, high integration costs, and require expert knowledge. They need a lot more UX work to be widely usable.

      1 reply 3 retweets 13 likes
    3. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Apr 16
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      Replying to @bradlarsen @hillelogram

      IMO, one thing that's easy and under-rated is writing simple scripts to fuzz things without using tools. I've walked people through doing this a few times and the reaction has been "wow, I didn't realize it was this easy to write a useful fuzzer" every time.

      2 replies 5 retweets 22 likes
    4. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Apr 16
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      Replying to @danluu @bradlarsen @hillelogram

      I don't disagree with the above comments that existing property-based testing tools/frameworks can be pretty high overhead for people getting started, but I think people drastically overestimate the effort it takes to get started with no tooling at all.

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
    5. John Regehr‏ @johnregehr Apr 16
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      Replying to @danluu @bradlarsen @hillelogram

      exactly! no need to get all fancy, just fuzz stuff. once this is a habit it's like wearing a seatbelt: if just feels wrong to stop.

      1 reply 0 retweets 14 likes
    6. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 16
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      Replying to @johnregehr @danluu @bradlarsen

      I'd be interested in a tutorial on handrolling situated fuzzers

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. John Regehr‏ @johnregehr Apr 16
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      Replying to @hillelogram @danluu @bradlarsen

      I wrote a series of blog posts about this a few years ago. here's one of them: https://blog.regehr.org/archives/896 

      2 replies 7 retweets 42 likes
    8. John Regehr‏ @johnregehr Apr 16
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      Replying to @johnregehr @hillelogram and

      it's no exaggeration to say that I would never, ever trust unit tests while implementing something like a balanced tree. not mine, not anyone else's.

      2 replies 3 retweets 23 likes
    9. Gok‏ @Gok Apr 16
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      Replying to @johnregehr @hillelogram and

      would you trust code that's only proven to work, but not tested?

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Apr 16
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      Replying to @Gok @johnregehr and

      I've heard (and can't verify that this is true) that the FDIV bug happened when Intel formally verified the SRT algorithm but failed to check that they were programming their PLAs correctly, vaguely analogous to failing to check that your compiler is producing correct object code

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan Luu‏ @danluu Apr 16
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      Replying to @danluu @Gok and

      That's interesting if true since I've probably seen the FDIV bug used as justification for formal methods in hardware a double digit number of times, but the ROI on formally verifying that vs. testing that you're writing the values you want to your PLAs seems pretty low.

      11:21 PM - 16 Apr 2020
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