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danluu's profile
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
@danluu

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Dan Luu

@danluu

https://patreon.com/danluu 

danluu.com
Joined December 2008

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    1. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 14
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      Hillel Retweeted Palley

      I used to think this, and then I started interviewing "actual" engineers. Most engineers in the world don't have a license, or a graduate degree. And even those that do confirmed that traditional engineering is often just as much of a shitshow as software engineering.https://twitter.com/stephendpalley/status/1249685093653843974 …

      Hillel added,

      Palley @stephendpalley
      Anyone who calls themself a "software engineer" should be required to be licensed, have a graduate degree in engineering & carry at least $1 million in professional liability insurance. And certain types of software should only be sold if approved by a software engineer.
      Show this thread
      25 replies 166 retweets 680 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 14
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      The actual laws vary country to country. Canada has the strictest laws, where everybody called an "engineer" needs a license. But in most places, only the "principle engineer", the one who signs off on plans, needs a license. The people under them don't.

      5 replies 5 retweets 64 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 14
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      We usually think of "engineering" as civil engineer, bridges and stuff. High stakes things. But a lot of engineering is very low-stakes. There was probably an engineer involved in designing your suitcase. In designing your tote bags. In designing the box your purchase comes in.

      3 replies 6 retweets 68 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 14
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      Hillel Retweeted Jason Crawford

      In most countries, the most regulated subfields of engineering are the ones that directly killed people. In the late 1800's we'd see a major bridge collapse about once per week. https://twitter.com/jasoncrawford/status/1216750827987062784 … Regulations are written in blood.

      Hillel added,

      Jason Crawford @jasoncrawford
      This footnote in McCullough's *The Great Bridge* blew my mind. As late as the 1880s, we still didn't know how to build bridges! We would put them up, and many would just collapse. pic.twitter.com/6vjfkQ482H
      Show this thread
      3 replies 26 retweets 103 likes
      Show this thread
    5. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 14
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      But many fields of software engineering are heavily regulated, too. Avionics has DO-178C. Medical devices have IEC 62304. These regulations could probably be a lot better, and will likely be strengthened as more accidents happen. But the point still stands.

      2 replies 7 retweets 66 likes
      Show this thread
    6. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 14
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      And there's even some ways that we're _better_ at "engineering" than trad is. The biggest is version control. Exactly one of the 17 engineers I talked to had version control in his traditional job. Others: pull requests, open source, practicioner-oriented conferences.

      3 replies 10 retweets 84 likes
      Show this thread
    7. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 14
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      The converse of this is that just as trad engineering isn't wildly better than software, software isn't wildly different from trad. The common counterclaim is "you don't have to move a bridge after it's built!" I've talked to several civil engineers who had to do exactly that.

      1 reply 13 retweets 95 likes
      Show this thread
    8. Hillel‏ @hillelogram Apr 14
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      Personally, I do see the need to differentiate software engineers from software developers, for the same reasons that we distinguish electricial engineers from electricians and lineworkers. I want this not to elevate engineers, but to respect developers.

      3 replies 6 retweets 58 likes
      Show this thread
      Dan Luu‏ @danluu Apr 14
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      Replying to @hillelogram

      In EE, some schools (e.g., Purdue) also have distinct EE and "EE tech" degrees that are more oriented at putting people into "technician" jobs, see https://www.reddit.com/r/ECE/comments/9gf7gn/what_kinds_of_jobs_can_people_who_major_in_eet/e63ug8s/ … for discussion of this, for example.

      6:56 PM - 14 Apr 2020
      • 2 Likes
      • Pradeep Gowda 🇮🇳🇺🇸 Matt "MSG superfan" Olson
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Apr 14
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          Replying to @danluu @hillelogram

          I haven't really seen something like this for software (in theory, maybe a software engineering degree is supposed to be more practical, like a "tech" degree is for engineering, but I don't think that's really true in practice for the program I'm familiar with).

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Apr 14
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          Replying to @danluu @hillelogram

          IMO, almost all software jobs are the equivalent of "technician" jobs (e.g., I'd include my own jobs at Google, MS, and Twitter in that category), but people really don't want to admit that, so they pretend that programming is super hard, you need to know a bunch of theory, etc.

          1 reply 1 retweet 14 likes
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