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danluu's profile
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
@danluu

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Dan Luu

@danluu

https://patreon.com/danluu 

danluu.com
Joined December 2008

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    1. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 31 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @davidcrawshaw @apenwarr and

      For personal use, I suspect you can get better video quality for cheaper with a used a5100 or a6000 for video (maybe 300?), arguably unfair comparison since you can get a used ipad also and maybe impractical for a company. On the audio side, I bet the issue for most people. . .

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 31 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @danluu @davidcrawshaw and

      . . . is noise from the environment, not sure if there's anything not very expensive that will fix that other than being near the mic and using low gain? You could try a very directional mic, but then people aren't going to be able to move, which seems like too much hassle for VC

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. David Crawshaw‏ @davidcrawshaw 31 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @danluu @apenwarr and

      My primary concern is audio, both latency and quality. Our working theory is the directional mics in the airpods are hard to beat (I can be heard over Manhattan street noise). For latency, we have strong evidence that facetime has gone above and beyond (see earlier linked talk).

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 31 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @davidcrawshaw @apenwarr and

      That makes sense. I've been thinking of getting a decent lavalier mic (my company has a $500 budget per person for stuff like this, I can't think of anything better to do with the money), but since we (the company) use hangouts I'm not sure audio input quality will matter.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 31 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @danluu @davidcrawshaw and

      I suppose I could try to do a comparison by (for example) sending some known high-quality audio into the input and seeing what kind of quality I get out, if there's no difference between audio quality from a high-quality source vs. my laptop mic then I shouldn't expect much.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. apenwarr‏ @apenwarr Dec 31
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      Replying to @danluu @davidcrawshaw and

      My main concern with a USB camera is I expect tons of pointless latency, just due to the driver stack. People with professional cameras use them to film videos to watch later, so don't care about latency at all. I expect it to suck more than an Apple-optimized iPad+Facetime.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. apenwarr‏ @apenwarr Dec 31
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      Replying to @apenwarr @danluu and

      I'd be surprised if the codec is a quality problem (except cellular codecs). But you can't make a high-SNR mic unless it has high selectivity. "Whole room" mics are the worst, by physics. One differential mic on each side of each speaker's face (airpods?) has huge potential.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Dec 31
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      Replying to @apenwarr @davidcrawshaw and

      I would've guessed that video latency is already so high that adding the driver stack in wouldn't make a huge difference, but that might not be true? I sometimes see the latency of calls directly (when someone recursively screen shares and a hall of mirrors slowly develops)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Dec 31
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      Replying to @danluu @apenwarr and

      It seems like I should be able to see the same thing and get the latency with the webcam in the loop with a single mirror, I should test that vs. an external camera to see if there's a noticeable difference

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Dec 31
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      Replying to @danluu @apenwarr and

      I tried this and got 23-28 frames of latency (60fps) w/Macbook webcam & 6-13 w/external camera in hangouts. I only tried once (range is from "echos"), wouldn't trust this measurement without repeating it, but it's at least not 100x worse or something.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan Luu‏ @danluu Dec 31
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      Replying to @danluu @apenwarr and

      Setup was 2 2017 13" Macbook Pros. Recorded using QT local recording. Macbooks pointed at each other, have something blocking the screen which is removed, latency is the time before that's seen, range comes from seeing this show up in progressively smaller windows.

      7:26 PM - 31 Dec 2019
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Dec 31
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          Replying to @danluu @apenwarr and

          Have symmetric gigabit internet connection, both machines connected through the same TP-Link Archer C7, local network idle other than this test (modulo interference from other networks).

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. apenwarr‏ @apenwarr Dec 31
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          Replying to @danluu @davidcrawshaw and

          Gadzooks, half a second of latency with the internal webcam? That’s insane. Is that somehow normal?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 4 more replies
        1. David Crawshaw‏ @davidcrawshaw Dec 31
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          Replying to @danluu @apenwarr and

          Ha I like the use of reflection in your experiment! Very nice. I have two similar iPhones here, I'll see if I can rig up something similar with them in the next few days. (The front facing cameras in the i-devices are far ahead of the laptops.)

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