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danluu's profile
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
@danluu

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Dan Luu

@danluu

https://patreon.com/danluu 

danluu.com
Joined December 2008

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    1. Hillel‏ @hillelogram 19 Nov 2019
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      Hillel Retweeted Vladimir Filkov

      SCIENCE GANG FIGHT I've pretty closely read both papers from a conf talk on empirical engineering, and now I gotta read the rebuttal super closely, toohttps://twitter.com/vlfilkov/status/1196714347403202560 …

      Hillel added,

      Vladimir Filkov @vlfilkov
      Happy to announce our rebuttal of Berger et al., TOPLAS 2019 paper, available on Medium https://link.medium.com/3dQgOK3QJ1 . Full, gory details are on ArXiv https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.07393 . Tl;dr: our results hold, they reproduced them, their study has many issues.
      5 replies 2 retweets 32 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 20 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @hillelogram

      Are these folks really trying to defend their paper? It's one of the most bogus papers I've ever read! Additionally, the "igon value" problems make it clear that the authors don't understand the thing they're allegedly studying.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Hillel‏ @hillelogram 20 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @danluu

      The 2017 CACM paper fixes some of the bigger flaws, like counting V8 as Typescript, but is still very questionable. Have you read the replication? https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=3340571 … It's really good (and the target of the refutation).

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 20 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @hillelogram

      Yeah, it's better, but IMO the methodology is fundamentally bogus. But even if the methodology could work, the errors in the paper are bizarre. Confusing memory safety and implicit coercion, statements like the screenshot, etc. None of the 4 authors noticed or knew better?pic.twitter.com/MZdX6rpPF6

      "Advocates of dynamic typing may argue that rather than spend a lot of time correcting annoying static type errors arising from sound, conservative static type checking algorithms in compilers, it’s better to rely on strong dynamic typing to catch errors as and when they arise.", see https://danluu.com/empirical-pl/ for more.
      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 20 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @danluu @hillelogram

      When I reviewed empirical PL papers, almost all had methodological problems or studied something meaningless, but this was the only paper that convinced me that the authors were less knowledgable on the subject than typical HN commenters.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. Hillel‏ @hillelogram 20 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @danluu

      That's brutal

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 20 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @hillelogram

      Ok, I read the rebuttal in detail and it's as bizarre as the original paper. Just for example, consider the screenshotted quote. What could "We were the first to correct our work immediately after noticing this very issue" even mean? This makes no sense.pic.twitter.com/NMxO10unGq

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. corvus frugilegus‏ @glaebhoerl 21 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @danluu @hillelogram

      Is it conceivable this could be a language issue, e.g. there may be an idiom in the authors' native language(s) with a similar logical structure where it means something more like "it was our first priority to..."? (Yes that's not incredibly logical, but many idioms aren't.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan Luu‏ @danluu 21 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @glaebhoerl @hillelogram

      Possibly, but then I don't think it makes sense for them to call the criticism a "#miss" for that reason. I suspect they meant something like "we fixed this before Emery Berger's paper was published", but that would still be months after I published my criticism.

      1:08 PM - 21 Nov 2019
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      • corvus frugilegus
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 21 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @danluu @glaebhoerl @hillelogram

          And even if they were first, their paper is full of results like.... a table that lists bitcoin, litecoin, and qBittorrent as TypeScript projects. They clearly published without basic checks on correctness at any level. Even if they fixed that, they still published it!

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 21 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @danluu @glaebhoerl @hillelogram

          Since people often criticize papers for having a single error, writing off the entire paper for a single sloppy mistake, I'd like to make it clear that the paper we're discussing is full of sloppy mistakes like this. You could teach a class off of the mistakes in the paper.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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