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danluu's profile
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
@danluu

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Dan Luu

@danluu

https://patreon.com/danluu 

danluu.com
Joined December 2008

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    1. Omar in New York‏ @rsnous Oct 14
      • Report Tweet

      Omar in New York Retweeted Int'l Association of Growth Machinists Local SB50

      yeah, i've become more and more leery of the "induced demand" argument (whether it's true or not!) first, I just think it's far more persuasive to have a concrete vision/story of what _positive_ future I want, instead of some quantitative argument _against_ roadshttps://twitter.com/JakeAnbinder/status/1183833551449407488 …

      Omar in New York added,

      Int'l Association of Growth Machinists Local SB50 @JakeAnbinder
      I feel like we need a discussion about whether the framing of “induced demand” has actually done urbanism any good https://twitter.com/preservememes/status/1183827628265836544 …
      Show this thread
      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Omar in New York‏ @rsnous Oct 14
      • Report Tweet

      and second, I think "induced demand" launders a normative, _political_ question (what do we want our cities to look like?) into a 'scientific' question (will road widening reduce traffic?) and that laundering makes me uncomfortable, even though I support the outcome it pushes

      2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Oct 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @rsnous

      I like transit but have always found the anti-road induced demand argument to be strange. You can apply it to many different kinds of networks, where increasing bandwidth "causes" increased usage. But why should increased throughput be considered bad?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Oct 14
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      Replying to @danluu @rsnous

      I think I'm more of a fan of quant-y arguments than you, so I wouldn't mind an argument based on ROI, but that's quite different from what I see: why build bigger roads, they just get filled up! Well, why build fiber instead of ISDN, that extra bandwidth just gets filled up!

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Scott Feeney‏ @graue Oct 14
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      Replying to @danluu @rsnous

      Your experience as one individual driving on the road doesn't improve with widening.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Scott Feeney‏ @graue Oct 14
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      Replying to @graue @danluu @rsnous

      People want to not be stuck in traffic. They don't want to be stuck in traffic plus have the delightful company of hundreds more cars stuck in traffic with them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Omar in New York‏ @rsnous Oct 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @graue @danluu

      Yeah, I think the induced demand argument has a hidden second part, that the throughput increase you do get is bad because some combination of: - bad externalities (pollution, land use sprawl) - failure to fulfill even the original political purpose (doesn't reduce traffic)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Omar in New York‏ @rsnous Oct 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @rsnous @graue @danluu

      + maybe some ROI thing about how if you spend that amount of $, you can transport more people with a different technology than road

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Oct 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @rsnous @graue

      I think it's easy to argue that buses or trains have much higher goodput (and people do argue this, but I don't really hear this from the induced demand people). I don't buy the "people don't want to be stuck in traffic" line because that's exactly the cause of induced demand.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Oct 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @danluu @rsnous @graue

      Increased b/w allows more people to travel at a level of congestion they find tolerable. That's supposed to be bad? Maybe it's not worth the cost relative to other possible projects or maybe the externalities are bad. But that's not the argument I hear.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Dan Luu‏ @danluu Oct 14
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      Replying to @danluu @rsnous @graue

      When I lived in a driving city, traffic didn't impact me since I had a job where I could work any hours I wanted, but for a normal person with a 9-5, increasing throughput at peak times (as they did in Austin by adding a lane to the highway) is a huge quality of life improvement.

      10:21 PM - 14 Oct 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Dan Luu‏ @danluu Oct 14
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          Replying to @danluu @rsnous @graue

          I think this is easy to miss if you're very privileged or wealthy and can afford to have a lifestyle where this doesn't affect you (by living closer to work or having flexibility), which is literally everyone I've seen making the induced demand anti-road argument.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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