I've wondered about this. Anecdotally, the place I've worked with the best quality didn't do code review (maybe three "serious" user-visible bugs during the 8 years I was there, one of which was a fab issue that couldn't have been caught with any amount of code review).https://twitter.com/skamille/status/1169765800829435904 …
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Replying to @danluu
I believe code reviews, done well, are primarily about training and team building, not reducing bugs.
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Replying to @davidcrawshaw @danluu
That said, it is still worth questioning their cost/benefit! The modern code review consensus has been promoted by tech companies with enough revenue to hide any costs. The problem is what I think of as the value of code reviews is hard to measure.
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Replying to @davidcrawshaw
My feeling (just a feeling, I don't have evidence for this either way) is that pair programming works better for training than code reviews. I suspect actual training also works better, but since no one does that it's hard to compare.
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Replying to @danluu @davidcrawshaw
I've worked at two companies that are probably P99+ in how much explicit training they offer, but they're not even in the same league as what you get if you walk down to your local go/chess/bridge club, let alone what you get if you're a serious amateur athlete or go player.
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Replying to @danluu
Given it is hard to measure costs and near impossible to quantify benefits, it would be nice if major tech companies were significantly different so we could at least compare macro outcomes. Instead there is surprising amounts of groupthink.
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Replying to @davidcrawshaw
One thing I find funny about programming is the slow diffusion of practices. Fuzzing/randomized testing has been standard practice in hardware for my entire life and there are papers applying this to software that are decades old, I that doubt even 5% of devs use fuzzing today.
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Replying to @danluu @davidcrawshaw
This no different from other fields, but we have this rhetoric around how well reasoned our practices are. But if that's true, why does it take decades for best practices to diffuse, just like every other field where practices are culturally inherited and obviously unoptimized?
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Replying to @danluu
Yes. Even stranger that code reviews went from rare to ubiquitous over the last 20 years with no evidence, when fuzzing did not despite tons of evidence.
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Replying to @davidcrawshaw @danluu
Other fields also do poorly. Here is modern medicine discovering half-century old aerospace safety engineering techniques:https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-47953541 …
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My impression is that the largest driver of diffusion of practices is people copying from the perceived most successful company, which was MS and then Google. Joel's old Joel Test article is all about how you should do X because MS is and they'll destroy you if you don't keep up
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Replying to @danluu @davidcrawshaw
Now when people make appeals like this, the reference point is Google or some $10B+ "startup". Unfortunately, the trendy candidates to become the next perceived most successful company have poor practices (IMO). I wonder if we'll see a regression if there's a regime change...
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Replying to @danluu @davidcrawshaw
Another curious thing is that you don't see many appeals like this about Amazon or FB even though both of them do a lot of (IMO) really good engineering. IMO, seems to be about prestige and those companies were never able to cultivate the same aura of prestige as Google.
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