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danluu's profile
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
Dan Luu
@danluu

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Dan Luu

@danluu

https://patreon.com/danluu 

danluu.com
Joined December 2008

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    1. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 9 Apr 2019
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      There's obviously some limit -- a 40 foot long line surely reduces reading speed, but it seems like no one's tried to find the limit? When I talked to designers/typographers, they pull rank and tell me that "experts" know that shorter=better, but they also can't refer to sources

      14 replies 3 retweets 30 likes
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    2. Mike Sanderson  🌃 🌬‏ @_mikesand 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @danluu

      It took minutes of googling to find many sources https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234578707_Optimal_Line_Length_in_Reading--A_Literature_Review … "Studied for over 100 years is line length... Research has led to recommendations that line length should not exceed about 70 characters per line." See also https://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @_mikesand

      Did you actually read these? The study in the first link is a literature review that finds highly mixed results, definitely not that long lines are obviously worse .

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @danluu @_mikesand

      The 2nd is some person's opinion that cites a book from 1967 that cites a study from 1929 that find that 3", 10pt. font is optimal. The author uses this as evidence that their website (20 pt. font) is good.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. rntz‏ @arntzenius 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @danluu @_mikesand

      I can't seem to find the full text of that 1929 study, but the abstract (https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1929-03857-001 …) seems to indicate you're misreading it. It doesn't compare different font sizes and say 10pt is optimal, it only compares different lengths (and uses a 10pt font size).

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. rntz‏ @arntzenius 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @arntzenius @danluu @_mikesand

      Ah, I've got my hands on the contents now, and it does say that in a _previous_ experiment they demonstrated that 10pt was better than alternatives - at a fixed line-length of 80mm. Then they fix the size to 10pt and find that 80mm is optimal. But they didn't vary both at once.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. rntz‏ @arntzenius 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @arntzenius @danluu @_mikesand

      Since they didn't vary both at once, one hypothesis consistent with their evidence is that line-length should vary in proportional to font size (unsurprising if true), and that there's nothing magical about 10pt font or 80mm line-length but only the ratio.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @arntzenius @_mikesand

      This is a problem in basically every study I've found on this. Almost all quantities that you'd care about are fixed (and different from what you'd use/see today). People then cite these studies to justify whatever they prefer, but it's not known if the results are generalizable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. rntz‏ @arntzenius 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @danluu @_mikesand

      It seems like there are so many variables it's just hard to study it scientifically. While I'm not generally sympathetic to argument from authority ("experts say 66cpl is optimal"), perhaps sometimes craft knowledge is the best you can do?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. rntz‏ @arntzenius 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @arntzenius @danluu @_mikesand

      On the other hand, the craft knowledge of typography was developed in a very different environment than it is now applied, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Dan Luu‏ @danluu 9 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @arntzenius

      I can buy expert knowledge in some contexts, but when I've talked to "experts" about this they've claimed that their beliefs are backed by ironclad studies. If the studies they've referred me to are what their beliefs are based on, that's unconvincing (to me).

      4:18 PM - 9 Apr 2019
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        2. Dan Luu‏ @danluu 9 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @danluu @arntzenius

          Also, this seems straightforward to study compared to many other aspects of human interaction/behavior. I'm not saying it's easy, but I think it's easier than other areas where we don't just give up and rely on expert knowledge.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. rntz‏ @arntzenius 9 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @danluu

          I am sceptical (although, only as an interested non-expert) that typographic practice is in fact based on studies rather than tradition, aesthetics & experience. On reflection it seems plausible it's not _unusually_ hard to study. Any ready examples of such "other areas"?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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