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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
      Replying to @AnkurRSharma @everytstudies @danlistensto

      A second one?! Wow, I admire their stamina, and JB’s willingness to have a second go at what must have been a humiliating experience.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
      Replying to @delysis @AnkurRSharma @everytstudies

      https://samharris.org/podcasts/meaning-and-chaos/ … the second one here. a much better discussion. Harris himself basically apologizes for the terrible communication in the first one. He was playing "gotcha" for some reason and not trying to have a real conversation. He succeeded the second time.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 21
      Replying to @danlistensto @delysis @AnkurRSharma

      I've listened to it now and I think he came off well. I don't see the insistence on Christianity as a metanarrative as lack of sophistication as much as a conscious, instrumental choice.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 21
      Replying to @everytstudies @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

      I gave round two a listen, too, and agree. I thought SH came off better, too: “Let’s talk across our epistemic gap” was a lot less rigid than “my definition is right and yours is not”. He can be fluid when he wants to be (like when ~24,000 people have requested that he be).

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 21
      Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

      Yeah I got curious about what happened the first time even though it was apparently awful. Am I right in assuming that their differences has something to do with the distinction/non-distinction between truth and wisdom? Because that part stood out to me.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 21
      Replying to @everytstudies @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

      IIRC, they didn’t even get that far. Harris: Truth is empirical. Peterson: Truth is whatever worked / was adaptive to believe. I find common usage to be the latter pretending to be the former, so I found both positions reasonable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 21
      Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

      Substituting wisdom for the second truth solves the whole thing imo

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 21
      Replying to @everytstudies @delysis @AnkurRSharma

      only if you have a clear idea about what is meant by wisdom. you're right back in the ditch as soon as you start exploring the question "what is wisdom, anyway?"

      9:25 AM - 21 Mar 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 21
          Replying to @danlistensto @delysis @AnkurRSharma

          I'll kick that issue forward for the moment. Probably something like "wisdom is useful mental schemas".

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        2. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 21
          Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies @AnkurRSharma

          Yeah, I think “wisdom” is too nebulous and (positively) value-loaded. Wouldn’t “subjective truth” vs. “empirical truth,” have settled it?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 21
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

          No I don't think so. I agree with Harris that only strictly empirical (or formal) statements can be true or false. That's an important line: truth is for territory, for maps there is validity.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 21
          Replying to @everytstudies @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

          I wish we lived in a world where truth was used that way...badly. However, there are many, many propositions which have been taken as truth by whole populations which are empirically false. In neurotypical circles, especially, truth is primarily a social/cultural phenomenon.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 21
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

          It's almost as if beliefs are endorsements.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 21
          Replying to @everytstudies @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

          Hmmm...I think that’s true of expressed beliefs, but it’s often adaptive (wise) to endorse propositions that are social truths (by which I mean statements that win arguments within a community) without believing them (the Kolmogorov option).

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 21
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

          That's not what that means, it's just that to believe something is to think of it as a desirable model, and there are several reasons one can think so.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 21
          Replying to @everytstudies @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

          Endorsement isnt contingent upon expression? I’m not following. (I just promised my s.o. I would put away epistemology twitter for a while, so I’ll be slow to respond).

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 21
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @AnkurRSharma

          It's just a reference to my articlehttp://www.everythingstudies.com/beliefs-as-endorsements …

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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