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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20

      Now, if I squint and view derailing in the context of information warfare, and take the observation in the JP thread about S5 arguments in public likely leading to discord, maybe I can begin to understand my friend’s concern.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    2. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 20
      Replying to @delysis

      Ideas that can't be misused if taken too far likely have very little content. But I wonder if it's a general feature of S5 type ideas that they turn bad if deployed in a S4 way.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 20
      Replying to @everytstudies @delysis

      Maybe that's just a pretentious way to say that ideological purity is bad.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
      Replying to @everytstudies @delysis

      ideology is bad. full stop.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
      Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies

      Disagree. Ideology as “ought” is bad. Coping with ideologies as phenomena is necessary to cooperate with humans subject to them (most of them). That requires being able to wear them. Further, ideologies can suggest solutions we might not have considered without them.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
      Replying to @delysis @everytstudies

      Ideologies are predatory memes. Navigating a memetic environment successfully does require knowing how to avoid or fend off predators. I do not recommend wearing them under any circumstances. That's getting the relationship backwards. Ideologies wear humans.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 20
      Replying to @danlistensto @delysis

      You need special, extra powerful meta-memes that keep the peace in your head.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
      Replying to @everytstudies @delysis

      informational hygiene. in 2018 we're experiencing the memetic equivalent of a cholera outbreak. until the water supply gets cleaned up you have to boil your water before drinking.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 20
      Replying to @danlistensto @delysis

      Even then, without a strong immune system you're toast.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
      Replying to @everytstudies @danlistensto

      In this model, is the cholera the ideologies themselves? Or is it the distorted perceptions / bad takes on reality that propagate because of the ideologies? I think the latter is a better fit. To synthesize this with the VM analogy, bad memes due to ideologies are like malware.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
      Replying to @delysis @everytstudies

      yes, I'm modeling ideology as a virulent pathogen transmitted in social commons.

      1:25 PM - 20 Mar 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies

          One that controls your brain, like toxoplasmosis. The thing I don’t love about this analogy is it leaves out the utility of infection. The “predatory meme” model fits that aspect, though: predators are instrumental when domesticated.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
          Replying to @delysis @everytstudies

          right, multiple metaphors here each doing some work of its own. the nice thing about abstractions is you can mix and match elements.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies

          Which is meta-fitting, since the gist of S5 is being able to use systems of thought wherever they’re useful and ignore them the rest of the time.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @everytstudies

          Though when ranking fit, John’s “ideology-as-OS, S5 cognition as hypervisor” tops my list. Sometimes, a particular OS is needed to accomplish a role, especially in the context of a network of computers running that OS. E.g. I need access to Windows and Linux for work.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @everytstudies

          Similarly, I need to be able to step into Christianity when talking to my parents, Intersectional Feminism and Libertarianism around town, and material monism at the hacker space if I’m going to be coherent or persuasive. I need them all to function in a pluralistic society.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
          Replying to @delysis @everytstudies

          ok this tweet makes your idea a lot more clear to me. we may have a terminology mismatch. what I think you're describing are "stances", which I might call "dramatis personae" in memespace. masks that you wear and remove as needed. ideology is a mask sutured to your face.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies

          Agree on terminology mismatch. The reason I think my Christian persona is still an ideology when I wear it earnestly (as opposed to sneeringly, which I also do sometimes) is that it still functions the same as when it was “sewn to my face” as a boy, despite strong disbelief.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @everytstudies

          Very much like the preemptive scheduler on a hypervisor, I can give my myself over to acting and thinking as a believer for short periods of time when needed, without relinquishing unbounded control to the system of thought.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation

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