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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20

      Delysis Retweeted

      Famous stage 5 thinkers I can name fall into two clusters: 1. Good fiction writers: Steinbeck, Kafka, JGL, Card, David Simon, Orwell. 2. Terrible right-wing pols & spooks: Bannon, Dugin, Surkov, Spencer, Dulles. The commonality is proficiency with narrative as an instrument. https://twitter.com/ankurrsharma/status/976103100800012288 …

      Delysis added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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    2. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20

      This makes me more sympathetic to the suspicion and condemnation I sometimes perceive from partisans in my life when I view ideologies as tools rather than The Truth: perhaps, to activist types, S5 thinking just wreaks of venality, witting hypocrisy, and deception b/c Bannon etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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    3. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20

      For instance: I sent “The Signal and the Corrective” to a Marxist with whom I find much common ground on practical matters of policy despite differing ideological aesthetics. Him: Sure, but it could be misused to derail political disagreement with extreme relativism. Me: ???

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20

      Now, if I squint and view derailing in the context of information warfare, and take the observation in the JP thread about S5 arguments in public likely leading to discord, maybe I can begin to understand my friend’s concern.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    5. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 20
      Replying to @delysis

      Ideas that can't be misused if taken too far likely have very little content. But I wonder if it's a general feature of S5 type ideas that they turn bad if deployed in a S4 way.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 20
      Replying to @everytstudies @delysis

      Maybe that's just a pretentious way to say that ideological purity is bad.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
      Replying to @everytstudies @delysis

      ideology is bad. full stop.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
      Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies

      Disagree. Ideology as “ought” is bad. Coping with ideologies as phenomena is necessary to cooperate with humans subject to them (most of them). That requires being able to wear them. Further, ideologies can suggest solutions we might not have considered without them.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
      Replying to @delysis @everytstudies

      Ideologies are predatory memes. Navigating a memetic environment successfully does require knowing how to avoid or fend off predators. I do not recommend wearing them under any circumstances. That's getting the relationship backwards. Ideologies wear humans.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 20
      Replying to @danlistensto @delysis

      You need special, extra powerful meta-memes that keep the peace in your head.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
      Replying to @everytstudies @delysis

      informational hygiene. in 2018 we're experiencing the memetic equivalent of a cholera outbreak. until the water supply gets cleaned up you have to boil your water before drinking.

      12:11 PM - 20 Mar 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • John Nerst Delysis
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Mar 20
          Replying to @danlistensto @delysis

          Even then, without a strong immune system you're toast.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @everytstudies @danlistensto

          In this model, is the cholera the ideologies themselves? Or is it the distorted perceptions / bad takes on reality that propagate because of the ideologies? I think the latter is a better fit. To synthesize this with the VM analogy, bad memes due to ideologies are like malware.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
          Replying to @delysis @everytstudies

          yes, I'm modeling ideology as a virulent pathogen transmitted in social commons.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies

          One that controls your brain, like toxoplasmosis. The thing I don’t love about this analogy is it leaves out the utility of infection. The “predatory meme” model fits that aspect, though: predators are instrumental when domesticated.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 20
          Replying to @delysis @everytstudies

          right, multiple metaphors here each doing some work of its own. the nice thing about abstractions is you can mix and match elements.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies

          Which is meta-fitting, since the gist of S5 is being able to use systems of thought wherever they’re useful and ignore them the rest of the time.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        8. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @everytstudies

          Though when ranking fit, John’s “ideology-as-OS, S5 cognition as hypervisor” tops my list. Sometimes, a particular OS is needed to accomplish a role, especially in the context of a network of computers running that OS. E.g. I need access to Windows and Linux for work.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Delysis‏ @delysis Mar 20
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @everytstudies

          Similarly, I need to be able to step into Christianity when talking to my parents, Intersectional Feminism and Libertarianism around town, and material monism at the hacker space if I’m going to be coherent or persuasive. I need them all to function in a pluralistic society.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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