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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @danlistensto

      So what do you draw from this?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl

      That I care about the ecological health of not just wild places but also human places and that species diversity is a good measure of wild ecosystem health and a poor measure of human ecosystem health

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Locus_of_Ctrl

      and since domesticated animals and farms are human ecosystems I do not care about a domesticated species going extinct if the health of the ecosystem they lived within is improved because of it

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Okay. This doesn't avoid my utilitarian justification for environmentalism though -- our future descendants might find certain species (or breeds) useful. There already are extinct breeds of domesticated animals -- like this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_White_Terrier …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl

      I didn't think we were debating whether or not environmentalism can be justified (it can be, in many different ways) the question is do we care about the loss of say, pigs, if a synthetic alternative becomes available. Lets just keep a few in a museum-zoo or something.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @danlistensto

      My original argument was that existence of species has a certain "moral worth" from the perspective of modern environmentalism (I didn't argue whether modern environmentalism is inherently justified or not -- I simply stated what seems to be the case).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl @danlistensto

      I then wondered why it is that domesticated animals (many of which have a staggering variety of unique breeds) are not given the same status by the very people who seem to support modern environmentalist ethics.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl @danlistensto

      When I try to think about why this is so, I can't escape the conclusion that there are two different "moral systems" at play here -- one of "city-dwellers" and another of "rural dwellers."

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl @danlistensto

      Suppose synthetic meat becomes available *and* you also believe that farming is morally suspect. Then you don't need to feel "guilty" for putting many rural dwellers who rely on farming out of business! You don't need to subsidize them anymore etc...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl @danlistensto

      I believe that almost *all* moral systems have traces of this kind of thing in them -- how do you justify something that previously would be morally unjustifiable -- in order to reap economic benefits for people whose "ecology" is similar to yours?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl

      yeah, these are the questions we need to be asking. no easy answers for this kind of thing.

      12:57 PM - 7 Mar 2018
      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

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