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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7

      Sometimes I am alarmed that so few people are “species ethicists.” In a Darwinian sense, the chicken had won a genetic lottery by being tasty, horse by being fast, dog by being friendly. Discontinuing meat is ethically equivalent to species extinction.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl

      In other words, the individual suffering of animal is given ethical priority over perpetuation of species. And yet, wild animals typically die much more painful deaths than domesticated ones (being disemboveled by hyenas when you’re old or infirm is no fun).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl

      I think the typical animal-welfare moralist argument against eating meat has more to do with the conditions of the animals' lives rather than the circumstances of their deaths.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Locus_of_Ctrl

      an interesting variant on Ort's original premise might be, instead of vat-grown meat, suppose that you had the option to live in a community where ALL of the available meat was from hunted wild animals. is vegetarianism morally superior in that situation?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Assuming hunting carries no risk at all of bringing the hunted species to extinction (unlikely with humans numbering in billions), a "species ethicist" should see as morally equivalent to farming.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl

      what's the underlying virtue behind privileging preservation of number of species in the world?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
      Replying to @danlistensto

      I dunno, but I would rather live in a world with many animal species than with few, because it would be more interesting from my (human) perspective.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 7
      Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl

      I think a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland might be very interesting too but I don't want to live in one.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Mar 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Locus_of_Ctrl

      biodiversity (i.e. species count) is often used as a proxy for ecological "health", which can mean all kinds of things but it seems really to be an aesthetic judgment more than anything.

      12:16 PM - 7 Mar 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
          Replying to @danlistensto

          After Sol Retweeted After Sol

          I agree, which is why I wrote https://twitter.com/Locus_of_Ctrl/status/971479857598160896 … One common justification for preserving wild species is that "what if our descendants find a particular species useful for some reason in the future -- the way we found cows and horses useful?"

          After Sol added,

          After Sol @Locus_of_Ctrl
          Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl @danlistensto
          The point though is that most people (frequently the same people who are concerned about welfare of domesticated animals) consider environmentalism to be good and morally justified. It is difficult to imagine environmentalism that doesn't have as its goal preserving species.
          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. After Sol‏ @Locus_of_Ctrl Mar 7
          Replying to @Locus_of_Ctrl @danlistensto

          They could find it useful for very strange reasons not yet known to us -- for example modern medicine finds snake venom to be chemically "interesting" and useful.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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