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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 15
      Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

      The polarization originated from the response to his opposition. He was immediately smeared and called a transphobic bigot. He reacted. Became a proxy for a larger culture war issue.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 15
      Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

      The discourse around him now is based very heavily on what has already been said about him, which has been hyper-polarized since he originally rose to notoriety.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 15
      Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

      Very little of the discourse is authentically engaging with his ideas, which range from interesting interpretations on existing ideas, to banal trad/con takes on personal responsibility.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 15
      Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

      It is really a sign of the times we're living in though that saying something as self-evident as "Stalin's and Mao's regimes were responsible for megadeaths due to starvation" causes people to get upset though.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Ian Welsh‏ @iwelsh Feb 16
      Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

      All the deaths related to the Great Depression rest on capitalism, but somehow that doesn't get pointed out much. (And arguably those include many of the WWII deaths). We are good at seeing the sins of our enemies, but that's intellectually worthless if we can't see our own.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 16
      Replying to @iwelsh @KennethFolk

      it doesn't? are you sure? in my very conventional mainstream public high school history courses we studied the Great Depression in a lot of detail and it was represented as both a tragedy and an enormous policy failure that could have been prevented/mitigated.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Ian Welsh‏ @iwelsh Feb 16
      Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

      I certainly do not see it mentioned nearly as often in public debate as the Communist famine deaths. (Or the fools screaming Venezuela, as if it isn't just a mismanaged petro state.) Nor do I see people actually tote up the number of deaths.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 16
      Replying to @iwelsh @KennethFolk

      alright, well I can't argue with your subjective experience of relative frequency of topics in the media you personally consume. have you seen anyone deny or write apologia about the Great Depression though?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Ian Welsh‏ @iwelsh Feb 16
      Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

      No. But nor have I seen capitalists accept the death count of the Depression and WWII Western front as accruing to them and then comparing it to the deaths of communism. Let alone accept the death counts of various famines and genocides as in India and N. America.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ian Welsh‏ @iwelsh Feb 16
      Replying to @iwelsh @danlistensto @KennethFolk

      to be clear, I'm fine with accepting the famines as "Marxist". I don't care. But in the same time period as the Russian famine England caused a massive famine in India, and I don't accept that India wasn't part of the capitalist world system.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 16
      Replying to @iwelsh @KennethFolk

      mismanagement of India by the colonial authorities is very tragic and bad. the motivations for it were most likely a mixture of callousness (and racism) and desire to exploit colonies. that's substantively different than Marxist policies not working as intended.

      11:20 AM - 16 Feb 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 16
          Replying to @danlistensto @iwelsh @KennethFolk

          to be clear, I am not in any way justifying the brutality of colonial regimes or capitalist exploitation. those are bad things and should be criticized. I don't understand what you're point is though besides just trying to do some reflexive whataboutism.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Ian Welsh‏ @iwelsh Feb 16
          Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

          this is actually an important question. If you want to compare systems you have to compare systems. If both cause deaths, then look at that. Hard to do on twitter. I wrote the argument at length.http://www.ianwelsh.net/did-the-industrial-revolution-require-land-clearances-slavery-genocide-and-empire/ …

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 16
          Replying to @iwelsh @KennethFolk

          I don't want to compare systems. My original remark was about the meta context of public discussions, not about comparing systems. Have a nice day.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Ian Welsh‏ @iwelsh Feb 16
          Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

          Understood. I won't talk with you again.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Ian Welsh‏ @iwelsh Feb 16
          Replying to @danlistensto @KennethFolk

          No. In fact India was used systematically as a dumping ground for British manufactures, while Indian manufacture was systematically discouraged. At the beginning of British conquests India had more manufacturing than Britain.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 16
          Replying to @iwelsh @KennethFolk

          yes yes, we're not disagreeing about British colonialism being bad in many obvious ways. I think we're done here. This isn't the sort of conversation I look for on this site. I think you will easily find people more eager for partisan debate. I'm not one of them.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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