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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Laboria Cuboniks‏ @Xenofeminism Feb 14
      Replying to @skfd @St_Rev

      yes. the confusion of epistemic & deontic modalities almost always leads to disaster. sometimes for science, sometimes for politics, usually for both.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Laboria Cuboniks‏ @Xenofeminism Feb 14
      Replying to @Xenofeminism @skfd @St_Rev

      a hierarchical data structure, e.g., just *isn't* a political hierarchy. these are completely different levels of abstraction. insisting that abstractions are obliged to drag this or that stupid mundane muck around w them hamstrings abstraction

      1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
    3. Laboria Cuboniks‏ @Xenofeminism Feb 14
      Replying to @Xenofeminism @skfd @St_Rev

      this way lies lysenko

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. Laboria Cuboniks‏ @Xenofeminism Feb 14
      Replying to @Xenofeminism @skfd @St_Rev

      you can *apply* ideas from mathematics, cs, etc. to politics, etc., even metaphorically. but the freedom to do that is grounded in the independence that formal thinking has from those particulars.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Laboria Cuboniks‏ @Xenofeminism Feb 14
      Replying to @Xenofeminism @skfd @St_Rev

      so the really pernicious part of the OP's argument is that ethics needs to be "integrated" into computer science. it absolutely doesn't.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    6. Laboria Cuboniks‏ @Xenofeminism Feb 14
      Replying to @Xenofeminism @skfd @St_Rev

      and it gets a bit subtle for a precaffeinated twitter rant, but there's even an ethical argument for not burdening mathematics with ethics. mathematics *ought* to be free from oughts. "the essence of mathematics is its freedom."

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    7. Laboria Cuboniks‏ @Xenofeminism Feb 14
      Replying to @Xenofeminism @skfd @St_Rev

      this looks like an application of ethics to mathematics, or even an "integration" of E in M, but it's not. it's at the meta level, and doesn't say anything about the objects of math or CS.

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    8. Laboria Cuboniks‏ @Xenofeminism Feb 14
      Replying to @Xenofeminism @skfd @St_Rev

      which sort of brings us back where we started: what the OP does is collapse abstractions and cause confusions

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    9. St. Rev  ☯️ 🏴 😻‏ @St_Rev Feb 14
      Replying to @Xenofeminism @skfd

      I'd say that the demand -- not that CS workers consider ethics, not even that CS programs consider ethics, but that the most elementary ideas in CS should be made to center politics from the beginning -- is both totalitarian and dreadfully boring.

      1 reply 4 retweets 7 likes
    10. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Feb 14
      Replying to @St_Rev @Xenofeminism @skfd

      Also evidence from prior states that tried this indoctrination (soviet union) & vaguely similar social engineering attempts in "ze west" (sensitivity training, which has proven ineffective and possibly exacerbative) suggests that it would achieve nothing like the "desired" result

      2 replies 2 retweets 3 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 14
      Replying to @0K_ultra @0knaomi and

      "ze west" has consistently proved that it is so blind to to the existence of backlash/blowback that its either pathological or intentional

      5:48 AM - 14 Feb 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • [Haunted] Tony Laboria Cuboniks DM Berger
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Feb 14
          Replying to @danlistensto @St_Rev and

          Pathological.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 14
          Replying to @0K_ultra @0knaomi and

          this is why consequentialists scare me

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Feb 14
          Replying to @danlistensto @St_Rev and

          Hey, a reasonable consequentialist wouldn't fall for these "ethics courses"/"consent courses"/"sensitivity training" failed horseshit

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 14
          Replying to @0K_ultra @0knaomi and

          ok, but ask around and see how many of them even know what the cobra effect is

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Feb 14
          Replying to @danlistensto @St_Rev and

          OK, dumb consequentialists are bad. I'm pretty sure dumb deontologists are equally (but differently) bad

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Feb 14
          Replying to @0K_ultra @0knaomi and

          they absolutely are. it's usually impossible to create adequate rules for situations with too many unknowns. it's also almost impossible to evaluate the effectiveness of your ethical rules in a reasonable timeframe. and yes, dumb virtue ethicists are also bad

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Feb 14
          Replying to @danlistensto @St_Rev and

          The magical thing about dumb deontologists is that they usually aren't under the impression they need to evaluate the "effectiveness" of their rules. The point of digging isn't freedom from digging.pic.twitter.com/I55WzKereo

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
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