ok look, the ENTIRE point of the series is that they aren't enlightened after all. Zakalwe died (over and over and over again) for our sins.
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Replying to @danlistensto
let's say that this point is correct. Do you trust politicians to take that away from it?
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Replying to @ColumPaget
I don't trust politicians to tie their shoes without expecting a kick back from Big Shoelaces
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Replying to @danlistensto @ColumPaget
But lets torture the analogy Geoff might have been trying to make. How do the current American political parties come down on the war in heaven? Is it blue-team is the "no hell realms" faction and red team is "hell has its uses"?
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Replying to @ColumPaget
early culture is Bush doctrine in space right? Except the Idirans were really equiv-tech and not three civilizational eras behind
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Replying to @danlistensto
I was thinking more of foreign policy in the middle east. "These people are desperate for enlightened democracy and we're going to give it to them by meddling in the region like the enlightened Minds we are. Oh, and bombing anyone we don't like."
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Replying to @ColumPaget
Yes, but that's not exclusive to the Middle East by any means. But again, like, the whole point is that they _aren't_ the good guys. There are no good guys. They just have really nice stuff.
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Replying to @danlistensto
I don't think I've ever met anyone outside of you who took that away from the series. I think it is very dependant on having read the much later works.
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Replying to @ColumPaget
I know, I'm very heterodox. The series is almost universally held up as the example par excelence of fully automated luxury space communism with enlightened humanist characteristics.
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which suggests to me that the most common underlying meaning a person has in mind when they think "this is good" is "this provides a framework in which I feel ok about using force"
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