If metastatic containers count, we have many that work for a lot of people: burns, tours, raves, therapy methodologies, cults, psych societies, academic research, medical trials, flow dojos, yoga aya circles, etc. None seem remotely resistant to malignant narcissism.
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Replying to @danlistensto @PereGrimmer
Boomer narcissism is bad, but their run is ending. I fear the childcare-by-AI-psuedoslave narcissism that will be with us for the rest of our lives. Psychedelic imprinting on AI psuedoslaves is a similar liability for adults. Psychs induce child-like gullibility. Ads lie.
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Replying to @delysis @PereGrimmer
psychedelics manifest what is already present in the mind of the user. that so many become child-like in their suggestibility is a statement about the user's existing proclivities. you're probably right that it's extremely common in Western culture though.
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Replying to @danlistensto @PereGrimmer
I don’t buy that the suggestibility under psychedelics is a western cultural artifact: its also seen and relied upon in Andean and Bwiti shamanic practice.
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Replying to @delysis @PereGrimmer
very curious which specific suggestions Westerners are vulnerable to vs. Andean or Bwiti people. my intuition is that there is very little overlap in those sets.
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Replying to @danlistensto @PereGrimmer
Plenty of westerners go into a jungle and come out believing implausible Andean and Bwiti claims. Or take DMT and believe they were talking to aliens. I know some of them personally —grounded people who acquired very niche beliefs. Same can happen w/o drugs, too -see Evangelicals
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Replying to @delysis @PereGrimmer
that's called belief tourism. often, we find what we're looking for.
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you're right, though, to point out that hard skepticism crumbles in the scouring light of the psychedelic experience. a cultural container ought to modulate what beliefs a person retains afterwards though.
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Westerner takes on a Bwiti mytheme after being exposed to it by a Bwiti shaman. The mytheme is a reality in Bwiti culture and the psychedelic experience allows the Westerner to, for just one day, feel like they're immersed in it. It re-enchants the world.
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what mythemes should Westerners use in our own cultural container for psychedelics? I find the traditional Judaeo-Christian canon to be sorely lacking. A fully disenchanted corpse that I'd rather not reanimate. Where do we go from here?
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Replying to @danlistensto @PereGrimmer
I love that question, and I don’t know. I suspect there is serviceable material in any belief system that can be mined, refined and operationalized —even Christianity, about which I’ve historically had a chip on my shoulder. The container I want is a few accepted rules, norms:
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My desired container is simple: 1. Recognition that people in the grips of a mystical experience are in a precious and vulnerable state analogous to childhood, and 2. A taboo on introducing violence, ads, new beliefs, and new partners to people in that state.
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End of conversation
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