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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. hikikomorphism 🏝 🛰️‏ @hikikomorphism Oct 22
      Replying to @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann @lordcataplanga

      I'm not at all convinced there's enough to be suspicious of the whole project. Concern about collateral damage, sure. But as far as I can tell it's more of 'useful tool with some isolated cases of abuse' than 'pretext for abuse with the occasional reasonable use'

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @hikikomorphism @sonyaellenmann @lordcataplanga

      I'm a DevOps/SRE. I'm paid to think about systemic failure modes.

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism and

      chilling effects are a real thing. the CoC is intended to chill certain types of speech (which is probably a good thing) but it's a blunt instrument and I'm far too Hobbesian in my worldview to trust any organization to be able to utilize this blunt instrument forever.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism and

      the really nasty things about written codes is that they become more and more difficult to dislodge and revise once adopted, even after clear problems emerge. orgs that don't yet have a problem due to their CoC are still operating with a risk codified into their org rules.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism and

      so the question remains: what is to be done in cases where some org members behave badly? I can't think of any better solutions that handling things on a case-by-case basis and stop LARPing justice court. There's no due process here. This isn't a court and nobody is a judge.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. hikikomorphism 🏝 🛰️‏ @hikikomorphism Oct 22
      Replying to @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann @lordcataplanga

      there's a pretty well known failure mode there, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness …

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    7.  🤖 Sonya Mann  🎀‏Verified account @sonyaellenmann Oct 22
      Replying to @hikikomorphism @danlistensto @lordcataplanga

      Chiming back in — I think CoCs can be useful to set expectations and give community members a pathway for redress when they're wronged. But really the quality of the leadership is what determines whether the CoC will be a useful tool as intended, or a bludgeon

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    8. hikikomorphism 🏝 🛰️‏ @hikikomorphism Oct 22
      Replying to @sonyaellenmann @danlistensto @lordcataplanga

      sure, nothing's a silver bullet. I just think that having _some_ CoC_ is generally better than leaving it up to opaque/informal hierarchies

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @hikikomorphism @sonyaellenmann @lordcataplanga

      suppose there was a highly motivated and organized group of _right wing_ activists entering FOSS orgs and pressuring the orgs to adopt CoCs that subtly promoted their tribal value system. Would you feel the same way about it?

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    10.  🤖 Sonya Mann  🎀‏Verified account @sonyaellenmann Oct 22
      Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism @lordcataplanga

      I think you make a good point, but there's also an argument that the opposite happens with pushing against CoCs like, both sides weaponize the FL/OSS project in question regardless of whether they actually contribute to it (I am definitely guilty of this!)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @sonyaellenmann @hikikomorphism @lordcataplanga

      right, pushing for and pushing against, it's the same culture war polarization we see everywhere. culture war armistice is the solution. CoCs are a weapon in the culture war. Time to put the weapons down.

      2:53 PM - 22 Oct 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • DM Berger Corn Woman 🤖 Sonya Mann 🎀
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
          Replying to @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann and

          expect to see more tradcon, rightwing encoded CoCs introduced in the future. SQLite is a relatively light-hearted example of it. There will be nastier ones coming.

          0 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
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