I think it's what Dan said about finding the whole cluster of attitudes and norms offputting
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It seems like the secular equivalent of freaking out because you see someone wearing a turban and you think that foreshadows the immediate imposition of sharia law. That's valid if there's a bunch of them in pickups w/ AK's (analogy left as exercise for reader), but usually not
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well, no, I don't think that's a fair analogy at all. the fact is we have at least some observed behavior of CoCs being used in a divisive and destructive fashion. it's not a case of mistaken identity to associate those pushing CoCs with those abusing CoCs for political games.
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Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism and
obviously its not a 1-for-1 relationship. there are those advocating for CoCs who are absolutely not going to abuse them. how small of a disruptive minor faction does it take to ruin things for everyone though? not very many it turns out.
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I'm not at all convinced there's enough to be suspicious of the whole project. Concern about collateral damage, sure. But as far as I can tell it's more of 'useful tool with some isolated cases of abuse' than 'pretext for abuse with the occasional reasonable use'
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I'm a DevOps/SRE. I'm paid to think about systemic failure modes.
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Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism and
chilling effects are a real thing. the CoC is intended to chill certain types of speech (which is probably a good thing) but it's a blunt instrument and I'm far too Hobbesian in my worldview to trust any organization to be able to utilize this blunt instrument forever.
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Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism and
the really nasty things about written codes is that they become more and more difficult to dislodge and revise once adopted, even after clear problems emerge. orgs that don't yet have a problem due to their CoC are still operating with a risk codified into their org rules.
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Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism and
so the question remains: what is to be done in cases where some org members behave badly? I can't think of any better solutions that handling things on a case-by-case basis and stop LARPing justice court. There's no due process here. This isn't a court and nobody is a judge.
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there's a pretty well known failure mode there, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness …
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dunno bout "well known" but it's a valid criticism in any case. you pick your poisons. i choose less structure over more structure. i think the downsides are more manageable and the systems are less prone to becoming entangled in Machiavellian political struggles.
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IMHO when everything's informal/uncodified you end up with _more_ power struggles, uneven application of informally-defined rules based on who's popular, etc
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You have more struggles but each struggle is lower-stakes, less likely to tear the community apart. But I can see good reasons why "you have to tolerate some oppression for the good of the group" doesn't really comfort anyone.
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End of conversation
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