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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1.  🤖 Sonya Mann  🎀‏Verified account @sonyaellenmann Oct 22

      The SQLite CoC thing is amazing. 1) https://www.sqlite.org/codeofconduct.html … 2) Explanation from the apparent project lead: http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Regarding-CoC-td104277.html#a104336 … 3) Hacker News thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18273530#18276906 … 4) /r/programming thread:https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9qedai/sqlite_adopts_new_code_of_conduct/ …

      12 replies 52 retweets 164 likes
      Show this thread
    2.  🤖 Sonya Mann  🎀‏Verified account @sonyaellenmann Oct 22

      Two thoughts: Surprising no one, /r/programming has a better sense of humor than Hacker News. The whole thing seems like A+ trolling, but according to backchannel commentary, the devs are sincerely religious.

      9 replies 5 retweets 60 likes
      Show this thread
    3.  🤖 Sonya Mann  🎀‏Verified account @sonyaellenmann Oct 22

      Also, I have no objection to the CoC, because the preface explicitly says: "The entire rule is good and wholesome, and yet we make no enforcement of the more introspective aspects." And...

      2 replies 1 retweet 32 likes
      Show this thread
    4.  🤖 Sonya Mann  🎀‏Verified account @sonyaellenmann Oct 22

      ...community members "are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that honors the overarching spirit of the rule, even if they disagree with specific details. Polite and professional discussion is always welcomed, from anyone." Not actually exclusionary, so whatever.

      4 replies 2 retweets 44 likes
      Show this thread
    5. hikikomorphism 🏝 🛰️‏ @hikikomorphism Oct 22
      Replying to @sonyaellenmann

      seems more like "we're letting you stick around, but we want to make sure to let you know that as non-Christians you're second class contributors" to me

      6 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
    6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @hikikomorphism @sonyaellenmann

      it does read that way but I think it was intentional because many prog/woke CoCs read that way as well except for a different religion

      1 reply 0 retweets 15 likes
    7. hikikomorphism 🏝 🛰️‏ @hikikomorphism Oct 22
      Replying to @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann

      sure, but I don't really mind alienating people who think that requiring people to use other's preferred pronouns is equivalent to sharia law. I get that that's how some people feel, but understanding a mindset doesn't mean you need to think it's valid.

      6 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @hikikomorphism @sonyaellenmann

      I can only speak for myself, but I think my sentiment is common enough. I *do* use people's preferred pronouns. When I see very pushy activists entering communities and making a big stink about it though, that sets off my alarms, makes me think the community is now being policed.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism @sonyaellenmann

      and the thing about policing is, well, it never really stops at the stated limits. once the norms shift towards policing a certain type of person becomes extremely likely to begin accumulating and consolidating power in that community.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 22
      Replying to @danlistensto @hikikomorphism @sonyaellenmann

      very few CoCs have explicitly objectionable content in them. it's the meta-politics surrounding CoCs that is a huge turn off and a big neon flashing danger sign.

      12:07 PM - 22 Oct 2018
      • 4 Likes
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      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. hikikomorphism 🏝 🛰️‏ @hikikomorphism Oct 22
          Replying to @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann

          sure, and I'm not saying there's nothing to worry about in such cases (shitty people do tag along for social capital on occasion), but as someone not particularly affected an alternate hypothesis might be that you're not really noticing the problem because you're not a target

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Delysis‏ @delysis Oct 22
          Replying to @hikikomorphism @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann

          CoC adoption is most harmful to its potential beneficiaries. (I can cite examples privately). As Coates convincingly argues in the conclusion to “Open Letter to My Son,” the reification of categories is the foundation of category-based discrimination.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. hikikomorphism 🏝 🛰️‏ @hikikomorphism Oct 22
          Replying to @delysis @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann

          I'm not really convinced, but perhaps you have a unique perspective on this. Why do you only feel able to share examples privately, out of curiosity?

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Delysis‏ @delysis Oct 23
          Replying to @hikikomorphism @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann

          The most prominent egregious example I can name wasn’t weaponized by Shanley or whomever to destroy the project. tl;dr no identity issue was mentioned until the well-meaning BDFL proposed a very mild CoC, then people’s very niche views on racial terminology came out, BDFL quit.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Delysis‏ @delysis Oct 23
          Replying to @delysis @hikikomorphism and

          My view is that if starting a project, a minimal CoC is a good idea. For the Linux kernel or OpenBSD, where trolls run the fucking thing, yeah, get a CoC in there. But if there isn’t a problem, and civility is already the de facto norm, introducing one is a big backlash liability

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Delysis‏ @delysis Oct 23
          Replying to @delysis @hikikomorphism and

          ...because it sends the signal that identity politics might be pertinent to a pull request or bug report. One of the coolest things about F/OSS software is it can be a safe place to take valuable contributions from terrible people (for anyone’s given definition of outgroup).

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. End of conversation

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