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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Yeah, I was gonna add that the withdrawal symptoms for long-term smokers are obviously rather heavy. For someone like me, smoking a joint or drinking two beers without chasing with vitamins and water would produce a worse hangover than quitting smoking (which gave almost none).

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
      Replying to @Triquetrea @danlistensto

      Again, it's a question of how you model addiction. The disease model is held to by many. I know some addicts consider it humanizing. I personally think it's both dehumanizing and deeply flawed, but YMMV. I also think "addiction" holds at least two or three different phenomena.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Neal Oldham‏ @DrNO_NC Oct 17
      Replying to @Triquetrea @danlistensto

      My dad won’t quit after a quadruple bypass, surgery to remove femoral artery blockage, a debilitating stroke, and no human being he interacts with for weeks at a time except my mom. Nicotine is definitely not merely social for some cases.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
      Replying to @DrNO_NC @danlistensto

      Ya mon. My tweet was definitely not entirely nuanced. There's a much wider discussion that needs to be had about addiction, here. But the physiological stuff and serious psychological attachment take a long time and/or early exposure to develop, for pretty much everyone.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
      Replying to @Triquetrea @DrNO_NC @danlistensto

      Contrast this with friends who have become addicted to MDMA because the first high was so great, and then the first withdrawal hit like a truck. That's a pretty fucking strong reinforcement mechanism. For smokers, you feel like puking and get severely dizzy, with no real high.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
      Replying to @Triquetrea @DrNO_NC @danlistensto

      Then you have years and years of constant tobacco use before you get any serious withdrawal symptoms. I had barely any, and I must have smoked around 10000 cigarettes in just a couple of years.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
      Replying to @Triquetrea @DrNO_NC @danlistensto

      So much as we may find a lot of long-term smokers who have much steeper costs for quitting, most people my age who say they're that addicted? They just don't want to quit (I didn't, for a long while), and/or they are caught in social circles that encourage smoking (as I was).

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
      Replying to @Triquetrea @DrNO_NC @danlistensto

      IMO (from having read quite a bit about it), most addictions are more or less a matter of choice. It's the notion that choices are "free" that creates problems with accepting that model, and stigma attached to operating under it.

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    9. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
      Replying to @Triquetrea @DrNO_NC @danlistensto

      "They are choosing this," absolutely does not mean "they could just stop choosing this if they were a better person/had more willpower".

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
      Replying to @Triquetrea @DrNO_NC @danlistensto

      To riff off @Grimeandreaso, you get the good ol' neoliberal hegemony sweeping in and using these "free choices" as an excuse to punish addicts. Instead of admitting that these issues are all complex and require individual care, every interested party has a vested interest in BS.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 17
      Replying to @Triquetrea @DrNO_NC

      Have you seen Gabor Mate speak on this topic?

      7:21 AM - 17 Oct 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • Neal Oldham Sindre
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
          Replying to @danlistensto @DrNO_NC

          Yes. I have yet to read his books (hopefully soon), but I think Gabor Mate is fantastic. The embodied stress model is very good, but I think it may be better to say it explains a range of psychological issues (e.g. disordered personalities) that make people prone to addiction.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
          Replying to @Triquetrea @danlistensto @DrNO_NC

          Since I haven't read his books yet, though, I'm curious to see how he approaches it when he isn't compressing his ideas for an interviewer.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
          Replying to @Triquetrea @danlistensto @DrNO_NC

          Thing is, if you don't believe choices are free to begin with, people exhibiting weak impulse control or cravings are not "lacking choice". Rather, their choices are more constrained than those others make in the same problem space. Like poor people's purchasing decisions.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Sindre‏ @Triquetrea Oct 17
          Replying to @Triquetrea @danlistensto @DrNO_NC

          "Sure, I can buy food without corn syrup. So, should I skip rent or my data plan this month?" The psychological costs of doing business are very similar.

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        6. End of conversation

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