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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Corn Woman‏ @WomanCorn Oct 16
      Replying to @vgr

      LOTR: Saruman HP: Voldemort HHGG: Slartibartfast All villains who enforce their will on the world around than and don't give a damn what others think. Maybe this illustrates the power of social sanction? (I mostly didn't read the other replies before answering.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 16
      Replying to @WomanCorn @vgr

      arguably Saruman's will is enslaved to Saurons due to corruption experienced via the compromised Palantir network

      3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    3. Corn Woman‏ @WomanCorn Oct 16
      Replying to @danlistensto @vgr

      Hmm.. Saruman at least appears to be making choices. I didn't pick Sauron because he's more like a situation than a character. Also because he's the most enslaved to the ring. Saruman seemed... Allied, but not whammied. He tried to sell Gandalf on alliance now, betray later.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 16
      Replying to @WomanCorn @vgr

      Gandalf literally told Saruman: "the ring knows only one master and it isn't you, buddy" Saruman was attempting to usurp Sauron and thought he could get away with it. A delusion Sauron allowed him to cultivate because it made him short-term useful.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    5. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Oct 16
      Replying to @danlistensto @WomanCorn @vgr

      I don't know that it can be dismissed as a delusion. Saruman was a Maia, as was Sauron. Sauron was a member of a far higher order of Maiar, but they were not different in *kind.* With the One Ring, which held a great deal of Sauron's power, could Saruman have...

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Oct 16
      Replying to @legalinspire @danlistensto and

      stolen that power, or restrained Sauron, to the point where he was an equal or even the stronger?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Oct 16
      Replying to @legalinspire @danlistensto and

      And whether he would have succeeded or not, was it an *irrational* thing to think?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 16
      Replying to @legalinspire @WomanCorn @vgr

      nobody that tried ever succeeded. Gandalf and all of the Elf lords seemed quite convinced it was totally impossible for any Maiar (or lesser) to dominate Sauron's ring. so that's at least 4 rational actors who disagreed with Saruman.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 16
      Replying to @danlistensto @legalinspire and

      I think Saruman's error was in believing that the ring contained only the _power_ of Sauron. In fact the ring _was_ Sauron.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Oct 16
      Replying to @danlistensto @WomanCorn @vgr

      And is it irrational for an ancient supernatural being to think that if he has a literal piece of his enemy's heart and soul in his hand, he could control or overpower that enemy? I don't see why. It might be and probably is WRONG, but it's not irrational.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 16
      Replying to @legalinspire @WomanCorn @vgr

      the likeliest outcome of Saruman possessing and wearing the ring would be his transformation into some kind of super Nazgul in the service of Sauron. if he didn't wear the thing the corruption would have taken longer.

      2:15 PM - 16 Oct 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Corn Woman
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Oct 16
          Replying to @danlistensto @legalinspire and

          Sauron is patient. a few hundred years should do the trick, assuming Mordor's armies couldn't just outright sack Isengard and reclaim the ring.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        2. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Oct 16
          Replying to @danlistensto @WomanCorn @vgr

          I am not arguing with you about what would have happened. As I said, we'll never know and frankly I doubt Saruman was right. I'm just saying that he was not necessarily *delusional.*

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Corn Woman‏ @WomanCorn Oct 16
          Replying to @legalinspire @danlistensto @vgr

          Both Gandalf and Galadriel say that if they had the ring they would become a dark lord as bad as Sauron. They must think they can hold and use the power for an extended period of time.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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