I don't buy the LOTR=WW2 analogy theory. If you just mean it's a comparable non-agression pact, sure. I'm not sure where Saruman is constrained though? He raises his own armies, generically engineers his own orcs, and masterminds his own war campaign.
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Replying to @WomanCorn @vgr
I mean, "the author is dead -Barthes" but it was definitely Tolkien's intent and design. The books are a long form allegory about WW2. he is constrained in that once he became corrupted and militarized he had no way out and no way forward. his loss was an inevitable conclusion.
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his best case scenario was acting as a vanguard invasion force and then getting betrayed by Sauron and overrun by the superior forces of Mordor attacking from the rear. his worst case scenario is just losing to hobbits and shit lol.
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Replying to @danlistensto @vgr
I feel like, if not for an Ent uprising, Saruman would have taken Rohan and held a reasonable and strategically valuable kingdom. If he did, Sauron would have won at Minas Tirith, and Saruman would have been a semiindependent vassal state. A decent bet.
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Replying to @WomanCorn @vgr
it was an intelligence failure on his part though. the Ents were already enraged and needed minimal coaxing to mobilize. Saruman was just completely oblivious to the situation cuz he was a scrub. his entire plan relied upon recruiting Gandalf. single point of failure.
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semi-independent vassal state is also a non-entity under Sauron global domination. he doesn't share power. Sauron would have turned on him as soon as it was convenient.
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there is direct evidence of this and Saruman should have known better! all 9 of the Nazgul were originally the kings of "semi-independent vassal states" that Sauron corrupted and then absorbed/conquered.
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Replying to @danlistensto @vgr
It's not a great plan. But <fight a conventional war against Sauron's armies> is also a terrible plan. Saruman made his bet for the best option he could foresee. Ring found + king returned + ring destroyed is just so unlikely.
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Replying to @WomanCorn @vgr
yes yes! this is why I'm saying Saruman was constrained and that his actions were all ultimately in the service of Sauron. He had no road to success, only various modes of failure all of which benefited the true lord of the rings one way or another.
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Replying to @danlistensto @vgr
I guess the freedom to fight a losing war against an overwhelmingly superior foe is not a super great amount of freedom. But maybe more than any other character? Most LOTR characters have limited ability to change their situation. Saruman had a lot and used it.
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Sam, Merry, and Pippin have the most personal agency of any of the main characters of the story.
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their own personal involvement ends up being the critical difference-maker in all of those pivotal situations. Sam carries Frodo. Pippin mobilizes the Ents. Merry is critical in restoring Aragorn's regency in Gondor.
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amazing discussion guys, the things you find on Twitter
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